Palace Magic

from Stardock Forums
I started with a 5x5 grid of sectors with no planets, late in a game. I built only in the center sector, and I recorded influence data only for the center 3x3 grid. I recorded the baseline data and then ran a turn without building to ensure there was no change, then went back and played out several scenarios. I earned 97,472 influence points during that turn.

Baseline:
1703, 1186,1150
1258,1106,916
1200,872,872

Complete Build -- 2 stacks of 12 constructors, building everything, 345% (28.75% per constructor)
3788,3545,3221
3653,17384,3185
3581,3221,3149

Palace Build -- 4 stacks of 6 constructors up to Party Palace, 220% (36.66% per constructor)
12870,12627,12503
12735,90040,12267
12663,12303,12231

Skinny Build -- 12 stacks of 2 constructors, Cultural Maximizer 33% (16.5% per constructor)
4617,4374,4050
4482,24016,4014
4410,4015,3978

Palace Plus build -- 4 stacks of 7 constructors, adding Cultural Maximizer 253% (36.14% per constructor)
17954,17711,17387
17819,130712,17351
17747,17387,17515

What does it mean? The handbook suggests you get the base (whataver that is!!!) plus the multiplier for each starbase and add the totals (accumulate). Taking the 12 x 33% scenario it looks something like 1106 (base) * 1.33 * 12 = 17651 -- OK pretty close.

For the Palace build then it should be 1106 * 3.20 (2.20+1) * 4 = 14156. Hmm Off by a whole order of magnitude.

So the suggestion was the starbases must multiply their effects rather than add (accumulate). Again taking the 12 starbase x 33% scenario it might look like this):
1106 * (1.33^12) = 33887

Palace Build:
1106 * (3.2^4) = 115972

staying with that theme if I assume my base is wrong and work backwards I get:
783*(1.33^12)=24016

Palace Build:
783*(3.2^4)=82103 --- That's closer

Palace Plus:
783*(3.53^4)=120546 -- we are in the right order of magnitude and scaling correctly.

Well, the conclusion bears out my intuition --
7 constructor stacks in sets of 4 create huge pressure on the neighboring sectors and are more efficient than 12 constructor stacks
Better to accumulate stacks in a single sector rather than surround your opponent.

Other notes:
Useless to colonize a 1 influence planet in a target sector and build influence social projects
Plan your domino attack starting on their weakest sector, not your strongest
I won on masochistic losing 1 ship, taking 0, losing 0 soldiers, avg approval 94%, no cheating (other than planning out my colonization strategy after maping my area of the galaxy) (ok, I colonized a couple of 14 planets repeatedly to get from 88 good to 90!!!!) only 11K Mpoints
add me to the list of folks who cannot post games
Highest game crippling 35K Mpoints technological victory

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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
quote by Citizen Maxtipherous - - "Highest game crippling 35K Mpoints technological victory"

Very interesting! I'm starting to get the impression theres a cap on Metaverse game submission scores around about 30 000. :notsure:
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Did you submit your game under Maxtiphere when they asked you for your alias in the submission screen?

If you submitted under Maxtipherous, you could go to the Metaverse registration page and change your player name to Maxtipherous.


~SDC~
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
"Highest game crippling 35K Mpoints technological victory"
End of quote


That's probably under an old version. There is no way tech victories can get anyway near 20k in the current versions.



~SDC~
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Well that's interesting
My games are showing up now after weeks. I did change my name and uploaded under the new name after 4 or 5 days but still nothing. My post to the newsgroup didn't show up for a while either. Just checked back, changed my name back, and 4 games have shown up.

I had a lot of trouble with the high-score game I mentioned crashing alot toward the end. Maybe a save file was corrupted so the upload looked modified and my account blackballed. Well -- gotta try another mega score now!
-- clh
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Good to know you have solved your submission problem, Maxtipherous.

For those games that crash at the end, try clearing the build notifications at the right bottom side of the screen by shift-clicking the first and last notifications. This has been known to cause CTDs at end of big games.

ps. If you are looking to empire, do consider the Fellowship. :)

~SDC~
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Or G.R.O.S.S.

B
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Maxtipherous - just wanted to say that's fantastically helpful data, and thanks! Presumably, you could mentally divide your opponent's territory into bite-size chunks and place 4x7 constructor squads optimally - imagine the cultural Alpha Strike!

I'd like to see the experiment now explore 27 sectors - i.e. nine 3x3 grids arranged in a square. Deploy nine 4x7 squads in the central sector of each 3x3 chunk. Now: how much influence overlap do you get in the surrounding eight sectors for each chunk? In your example, you're getting about 17,500 for each of the surrounding sectors. Does that simply DOUBLE if you have another 4x7 squad on the next sector over?

What I'm getting at (in a most roundabout way) is the optimal placement pattern for your squads?
[Message Edited]
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
ray -- thanks for that tidbit. I did read it in a faq somewhere but didn't understand what it referred to. I will try it.

anyone else have trouble near the end of a game where the tech screen pops up, is covered by another screen, then they all close together? I keep researching stuff I don't need 'cause I forget to go back and change my selection.

womby
I looked again at the massive game where I used the clusters of party palaces to sort of march my culture across the map -- 4 stacks per sector. My central planets had influence in the 8 digit realm, and I though I would sort of amplify the culture in an ever-expanding curtain. Turns out this is horrifically inefficient. (good score though)

I have yet to see the AI use massive culture-enhancers, so I have never seen their culture above maybe 16k. This is trivial against 4 stacks, no matter how far they are away from your center planets. I choose an empty sector adjacent to as many opponent's sectors as possible. 4 stacks can theoretically make 8 sectors of numerous planets fall.

I have been sending stacks out ahead of the research, so I can sort of turn them all on at once. Propaganda machine, hyper-distribution center, 4 stacks of seven placed in a centralized (empty) sector and boom -- game over. If I have a little extra time before the tech is ready I might set two stacks worth on guard inside a sector that will eventually fall. When it does, I can quickly daisy chain to the next sector over.

cheers!

coupla beefs for what they are worth.
The click that says "no further ships available (grumble) It should *not* click if the system is thinking -- usually auto-moving. Also, it would be much more to the point if it was "no more moves left" not "this ship can move but nobody else can" I want to pound through these moves, not look to see if it is 1/7 or 0/7

AI relationships are way too stable. after the land grab, feed them well and they are yours for life. Need to have coups and nasty underhanded bargains to divide your territory and stuff. Add a little tension that your finely-crafted edifice could come crashing down at any moment.

Cultural overthrough should make the AI's nervous at least, and possible hostile. Otherwise when the bricks start falling it all ends too easily. I know I get PO'ed when I loose a planet!

Cheers!
-- clh
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
anyone else have trouble near the end of a game where the tech screen pops up, is covered by another screen, then they all close together? I keep researching stuff I don't need 'cause I forget to go back and change my selection.
End of quote


Yes. Now that you said it, it does seem that this does not happen in the early game. The GNN report appears over the tech screen and clicking the GNN report closes both. The work-around at the moment would be for you to disable GNN in the options screen.

~SDC~
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
This kind of information is very useful to the PanGaea Cooperative, whose objective is to win the galaxy's favour through the building of Party Palaces and Satalite Water Parks...

...not that I'm trying to recruit anyone or anything. We only want people that want to party with us. :HOT:
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
yeah right.. thats what the Cylons said to the ppl trying to find earth prior to trying to exterminate us. I just don't trust anyone who says that their objective is just to have fun.. depends on what they call having fun...

I don't want to end up in a hive as food for any species...

LOL
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
I have yet to see the AI use massive culture-enhancers, so I have never seen their culture above maybe 16k. This is trivial against 4 stacks, no matter how far they are away from your center planets. I choose an empty sector adjacent to as many opponent's sectors as possible. 4 stacks can theoretically make 8 sectors of numerous planets fall.
End of quote


Maxti - thanks again for this insight. So you feel that choosing a single empty sector within the reach of the max number of enemy planets is the way to go? What about the Atom Bomb technique - pick the prime enemy home sector, drop your 4x7 squad in it: flip the biggest enemy planets (so their influence drops all over their empire) and let the 'shock wave' do the rest?
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
If you do that they go to war with you and blow up your starbases. If you pick an empty sector then there's no war and it works just as well.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Complete Build -- 2 stacks of 12 constructors, building everything,
End of quote


Have not got that high up in the tech tree yet. Are you saying there are 11 different culture modules?

4 stacks of 6 constructors up to Party Palace
End of quote


Obviously one goes for the SB itself, what are the others for? Any on defense?
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
Are you saying there are 11 different culture modules?
End of quote


Yes, there are. Lookie over here at part of the All-holy Javascout Guide.: http://webpages.charter.net/trevorpowdrell/sbmodules3.htm

The palace structures have so much value that some people skip the lower modules on the tree that are not essential to getting the party palace, so the Satellite Waterparks and such are neglected. If I build a culture base, though, I am going all out. Those lower modules not required for the palace are still worth about a 90% boost.
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerakken,
I think you missed my point.
The whole thrust of my argument is that two starbases with 6 constructors each has far more impact than 1 starbase with 12. Playing on crippling or maso difficulties you need to be as efficient with your resources as possible.

Take a look again at the difference between building 2 stacks of 12 (24 constructors) and 4 stacks of 6 (also 24 constructors) -- over 5 times the results!

Cheers!
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Yes, for culture bombing with starbases, I usually prefer multiple party palaces rather than a maxed out SB with other weaker culture modules. It's more efficient.

~SDC~
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerakken,I think you missed my point.
End of quote


No, it is just not my style to build multiple bases in a sector except in the rare cases of two resources in the same sector or buying out an enemy base later after I had built one of my own. You folks should know me by now: I don't try to squeeze every last drop out of Galciv. (Which is why I am probably not fated to be a maso player, lack of brutal efficiency.) So I definitely recognize which is the more efficient method, it is just that it is not the most aesthetic means to yours truly.
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerakken, I appriciate what you are saying. You seem to want to play the game in a realistic manner. You might think about multiple star bases (Party Palaces) in a sector as competing franchises. Is it efficient to have a McDonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's right next to each other? No! Is it realistic? Yes.
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
A technique I have found to work well is to build several party palace space stations in your own most influential sector, later maxing them out on culture, economic and mining bonuses, since that sector is likely to have a lot of your best planets, and therefore your best trade. Doing this increases your influence to the magnitude sugested above by Max, so that is less needful to go the extreme of four starbases in one sector again.

Also, another advantage of piling the constructors into 2 rather than 4 is that they can will use defensive modules more efficiently later...

...as always it comes down to balance. I prefer to build up on station, then if I need more, build another one, then if that isn't enough, another...
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
Maxtipherous

Thanks for the strategy tip. I really like this kind of open discussion of strategy. I have always used the maxed out 343% culture starbase with a +5 basic defense module for a better defended unit like AntonChanning suggested. I rarely have much of a navy -mostly early corvettes and mid-game AMM so I don't cover my starbases (SB) with a ship. But your study on max influence is very interesting particulary combined with good diplomacy.

If you turn off the culture victory and flip all the planets, you will get a military victory and a much higher metaverse score than culture victory provides. I found this out accidently LOL.

When you join an empire to get that extra competition thing, consider the Fellowship of the Ring http://www.galciv.com/metaverse/empires.asp?id=329 . Several overlords play maso and we are open about strategy tips on both game and metaverse often posting on the FOTR thread http://www.galciv.com/forum.asp?BID=GF&id=77385#94269

Please start more threads like this. You may want to consider posting strategy tips in the strategy part of the forum. They are easier to find because they stay on page one longer and it is "all strategy all the time" LOL

Thanks. :)

Rick