The AI cheats -- proof

I missed a word in my previous message that made it sound confusing -- here's the correct text.

After the Drengin succesfully invaded one of my star systems, they immdiately had two star fighters orbiting the star system. Mind you, this was not at the begining of the following turn, but it was on the same turn that they invaded, before my ships had even moved for that turn. How can they build two star fighters and have them orbiting the system immediately after the attack without even one turn needed for them to build the ships??? They did have one star fighter nearby that could have "possibly" entered the orbit of the system, but they did not have two. And I should have SEEN any ships enter orbit as I had one star fighter nearby. Although I was building one star fighter on one of the planets in the conquered system, it shouldn't have been built till at least the beginning of the next turn assuming they bought it. So unless I've missed something this is absolute proof the AI cheats. If someone can tell me how they can have the two ships after conquering a system without even one turn needed to build them please tell me.

If your planet had been building a starfighter that would have been finished that turn, then the star fighter would be built on the beginning of your turn and become theirs. Maybe a bug, but not a cheat.

Computers Can't Cheat... Humans Cheat..

Computers do as they have been programed to do.

I hate the way some ppl recon that computer programs cheat. (My brother was the worst i've ever met that thought this. any game he couldn't beat or when ever something happenedc that he didn't like he said that the computer cheated.

I've seen this complaint before and I think I know what's happening. The A.I. is not cheating, nor is it a bug.

When you click the turn button that just means your part of the turn is over, the A.I. is still finishing its actions for the same turn. Then the next turn begins and certain actions take place for both the A.I. and the player such as new ships appearing on the map. What could have happened to BlueWulf above is:

------ Turn 1 -------
Bluewulf has a planet building starfighter
A.I. has starfighter nearby.
Bluewulf done with his actions for Turn 1.
Bluewulf clicks turn button.
A.I. concludes turn 1 by invading starsystem.
A.I. decides to build/buy another starfighter on newly aquired starsystem.
A.I. decides to move a ship to the newly aquired starsystem.

------ Turn 2 begins -------
A.I. has new, shiney, starfighter along with the other one moved to the system.
Control of game returned to Bluewulf for him to continue with Turn 2.

Make sense?

The invader gets to capture the production progress in the military que of the victim. It is apparently a multi-planet system, so the invader just speed bought the current half finished fighter and converted the military que of the other planet(s) into starfighter to get them done. The invader's turn ended before yours began.

This is a very plausible scenario from the information provided. Therefore, there is no cheat in this case, just a human who doesn't fully understand how things work. That is not meant to be demeaning or anything. A lot of people do not know the ins and outs of Galciv yet because of lack of adequate documentation. People get told how to run the basic game in the manual, but the exact hows and whys are learned later by experience and asking others.

not sure about everyone else, but i consider the fact that the AI's already know where the habitable planets and where the resources are without exploring to be cheating.

Cheating is when you break the rules. It is spelled out in "da Rules" that the A.I. knows where the yellow stars are. Thus, I would not call this cheating.

Now the fact that a computer doesn't require sleep... that's cheating!!!

The AI's knowing where the habitable planets and resources are doesn't really help them much. I mean how often do you reload a game because you weren't happy with a starting position or you didn't get enough planets in the colony rush. Now that's cheating Typically for me, I'll save the game at the first turn, and if I screwed up the colony rush then I'll reload it and use my previous knowledge of where the yellow stars are at. Reloading in my opinion is the biggest "cheat" of all, and I'm sure everyone does it from time to time.

well, thats in my opinion, not everyones. a lot of games "cheat" (my deffinition), especially when you switch to higher difficulty levels. what i think is a good example of a "cheat free" game would be chess, since the rules are exactly the same for both human and computer. if you increase the difficulty, the computer doesnt get pawns that can move an extra square, nore does it get an extra queen. all the computer does is calculate more turns in the future before it decides what to move -the higher the difficulty, the further ahead it calcultes.

this of course wont stop me from playing galciv, anyways, i dont really like chess too much LOL

Qui-Gon Jinn --- the problem with your scenario is that when you said "A.I. decides to build/buy another starfighter on newly aquired starsystem" that starfighter shouldn't appear until the beginning of the next turn! I know that if I have no starships orbiting the system and I buy one -- It can still be invaded on the next turn because the ship won't be built until the enemy has done its turn. But these starships appeared without even one turn commencing. As SOON as the Drengin invaded and took the system the starships were there. They didnt even need one turn to build them!!!

Yes, your points are well taken Hairy. But then again, stardock fully admits that the A.I. gets bonuses on the harder levels... that's what they are there for.

But it still follows all the game conventions and rules: It still has to build military and social projects, collect taxes based on population, keep moral up, manage it's economy, etc. It's not like the rules go out the window and the A.I. just gets a bunch of stuff for free just to make itself invincible, like some other games in this genre do.

So by my definition, the game still does not cheat: all the same rules apply at all levels.

It dosn't appear until the next turn. Look my analysis closely. The A.I. decides to build the ship on Turn 1, and it doesn't appear until the beginning of Turn 2. It only seems like the same turn to you because it all happens after you hit the turn button.

Just keep the computer running galciv for 24 hours, maybe the AI will get tired. Did you try?

As Qui-Gon said, if the starfighter was due finished by the end of your turn, then it should appear in the ai's control at the beginning of your turn. You may get it too when you invade a planet and immediately get the ship the planet was building.

I saw the same thing with a colony ship of the AI, and IMO it's BS.

I had a scout ship in a sector controlled by one of the monros. I watched it colonize a fresh system (no other planets colonized) I the instant it colonized the system, it had a brand new colony ship in that same system.

I reloaded the game several times to see if it was just a fluke, and it happened about 75% of the time. This was on normal level, so AI level bonuses should not apply. Even if they did, it should not have had it's colonizer until the next time I hit end of turn. Otherwise I would not be able to capture the current military queue production, if I had invaded the planet on that following turn. If my ship appeared before the Ai got to move it's ships, then it would be a level field. Not the case in what I saw. His ship was quick fodder anyway, but it's the point ofthe matter that irks me.

In retrospect, it was at a harder difficulity level, but as I said, that should not make any difference. Even Maso don't give the AI +1 turn LOL (now that would be a cool anomaly)

Can you send your savegame to me, couslee?

Not that one, tis long gone. Played it for a while after the event, but when/if I can catch it again, I will save it. (was also a couple of games ago. lol)

Well, certainly this is not the first game you guys ever played. I do not understand why people complain about AI being cheating. Almost all computer game AI's cheating. Nothing new about that.
Yet we humans always out smart them so don't worry about it.

Arrrggg!!!! Is no one listening to me??? It's a good thing my Jedi skills include "Force Patience". Couslee, my explation above (post #4) explains your situation, too. If I'm wrong, someone please explain to me how.

I think what is confusing people is the fact that the A.I. moves come at the end of the turn. So when you hit the turn button, the A.I. is still doing things for the the turn you just finished. So any invasions that occur when you hit turn take place in the turn you just finished. This way, the A.I. can appear to get ships instantly when, in fact they are still waiting 1 turn for them to build.

Nah..... AI is cheating.

HO HO HO

Well, I, for one, am glad to see good ol' 'The AI is CHEATING!' threads rather than yet another discussion on the Metaverse... LOL

~SDC~

The AI is cheating! It moves ships without clicking on them with the mouse

Qui-Gon pulls his light saber out and it hums into life. He thinks better of it and turns it off, starts to turn away and then suddenly powers it back on. He shuts it of yet another time, and pulls out a communicator that looks oddly like some kind of women's razor and uses it to call his Jedi therapist.
(:(


[Message Edited]

Actually, I have seen this often as well, but I never believed it was a bug. However since every game I have played has been on gigantic on a slower machine (wow...when did 800 MHZ with 768 MB RAM become slower?!), I have never taken the time to reload repeatedly to diagnose it further due to the logic expressed repeatedly above (and my own observations below).

I can shed a little light however - every time it has appeared to happen, it has been under the following two circumstances: 1) I have a ship with attack capability (not a transport, freighter, etc) in production and it will finish at the END of the present turn - 0 months not 1 month; or 2) Attack ship in production, but has 1 month remaining and the AI has sufficient funds to purchase the ship.

I have always followed the line of reasoning posted above in which this is the result of the AI moves happening for the turn presently ending. The apparent non-synchronicity of the AI moves relative to the human move lends itself to the appearance that the AI suddenly gained a ship without waiting a turn - but in reality it has purchesed the ship (and completed it) by the next turn.

Thank you, Sedennial. I can finally sleep soundly knowing that I'm not alone in realizing this.