Does anyone care that Metaverse still doesn't work?

I had trouble getting it to work for me, it took me
awhile to figure out what I was doing wrong, though
sadly I can already tell that this isnt your problem.

In my case, hitting submit did nothing because I had
not registered for metaverse. I had assumed either
the game would register me when I hit submit or prompt
me to register, or warn me that I needed too. It did
nothing and my score didnt show. So I registered to
the web site, and that allowed me to post, but again
eventually I registered at the metaverse page, and that
did the trick, and all my previously submitted games
were there, even that really annoying lost game that
I dont even remember trying to submit.

Anyway, you obviously are registered as ur showing up
when I click on your name(I wasnt when I couldnt
get myself scored).

So this leads me to believe your problem is something
else.

How is that for wasting your time with a useless post.

Im gonna go bury my head now!

(bump)

I have two wins that I've been trying to submit for a week, but no luck. I've submitted wins in the past, so I know I'm configured/registered, etc.

Stardock has been great about game updates. I have no idea why they don't seem to be paying attention to this problem.

I haven't been able to submit for several days as well.

Oh, that's without mentionning that half of my scores recently disappeared, retaining my '5 wins medal' with only 3 games showing. But that's only a detail, I guess

The submit screen is asking for the name that you registered with the metaverse.

if you have problems with the metaverse, e-mail [email protected]

works fine for me

Message to Stardock: Isn't this a hint that something is lacking in the metaverse submission process? It seems to me that at the minimum, there should've been feedback during this process that tells you if the submission succeeded or failed and possibly why? Every other thing I've seen where you submit information online gives this kind of feedback but its not present here.

Lets face it, the casual users are having problems with this. It took me (a power user) a while to figure it out. Something is wrong with that picture. I've designed UI's and write software for a living so believe me, I know when somethings not completely right with an interface.

It doesn't work for me either, but honestly I think the whole idea behind the metaverse is flawed. Hopefully they'll get rid of it.

You can't have a moddable game and have a central repository for scores. I believe this is why there are hardly any mods that do anything except add events into the game. I'd much rather have more mods (check a look at civ 2 if you want an example of a modding success) than my scores recorded on a website.

Ryan, if the goal of the metaverse is to compete with other players, I think you have a point. If the goal is to see how players are playing the game to sharpen the AI and to address game balance, it's fine. If it's both things, well, it can't be all things to all people.

"Ryan, if the goal of the metaverse is to compete with other players, I think you have a point. If the goal is to see how players are playing the game to sharpen the AI and to address game balance, it's fine."

The problem is, it doesn´t achieve either of these goals.

The scoring system is way too screwed for a real competition, and the Metaverse doesn´t allow me to see what other players do, either.

And I doubt very much that the Metaverse input has done anything to sharpen the Ai. A few statistics from a game will never sufficiently explain what a player did at the macro-strategic level and why, and that´s precisely where the Ai is failing. Improving the Ai´s economy by another 2% will not change a thing.

The Ai is already better with its economy than we are, but it f*cks up at Politics/Diplomacy and Warfare Tactics, and the Metaverse submissions would have to include a replax of the entire game to be helpfulin this department, and who would have the time to watch all those replays?

In short, this concept is wrong from a logical viewpoint.

The other problem with the AI having economic bonus is that ironically enough, tech victories get ALOT easier on the tougher levels (crippling and up). This is because they research so much faster than you do. But because you can wheel and deal for many of the technologies they research, you ramp up the tree alot faster. To top it all off...if the AI hits Final Frontier, all you need do to win the game is successfully invade just one AI planet. Not to mention I rarely see the AI build out resources like they're supposed to even though they have the tech to support it.

Coffee, Ryan,

we KNOW that the Metaverse has paid off already, for improving the AI and the game in general. Brad has told us.

The reason the PQ +10 and +15 was removed? Most people were choosing those for their pics. And not much else. Dominant Strategy that was a cheese in Brad's opinion, so it was removed.

There has been some tuning and improvement to the AI in response to the strategies as recorded and sent into the Metaverse.

Now, as a 'fair competition' between players, yes its a joke. You want points in the Metaverse, you play for how it scores. If you just want to enjoy the game, do that instead.

"The reason the PQ +10 and +15 was removed? Most people were choosing those for their pics."

Could have been gleaned from the forum as well.

And I still can´t see how the Metaverse is supposed to improve the Ai in a meaningful way.

To adress Ai tactical and long-term strategic (diplomacy!) weaknesses, your submission would have to include the entire replay. And no one in either the Universe or the Metaverse would have the time to analyze all those replays.

Pilot,

That may be true, but just reading the boards once a day would have given them the exact same information.

If the Metaverse can really be used to improve the game, I'm all for that. However, like many complex systems, the interaction between modding and the metaverse was not completely thought through.

Isn't it a bit odd that to this day there is no official guideline on what is an 'admissable' mod to use when submitting your score? Don't you think it's a bit wierd that there are NO ship mods in the library? The Metaverse is putting a huge damper on the modding community for this game. Which, in the end, is the exact opposite of what Brad was going for. His plan (and I'm going from memory here) was to build a fantastic, highly moddable, game that will endure for years after he stops development. Something akin to civ 2 which STILL has a loyal fan base and new mods coming out.

Personally I think the modding community could, in a week, fix the damn ship stats that Brads team can't seem to get quite right. There are still 3 totally useless ships (battlehammer, battlecruiser, and starhawk) and several that are marginal (star fighter, defender, ranger, corvette). My own humble opinion, feel free to disagree, but the point is that with 10 different ship stat mods, we'd all be able to play with the ships the way we liked.

Forums don't give you the actual numbers in use though. Just because 10 people say, "the game is to easy with PQ+15, so I've stopped using it. How about you?" doesn't make it true. And the PQ reduction/removal was also the FIX for all those people (including me) going 'I just played yet ANOTHER game with and average tax rate of 99% and Morale 100%!'. Of course, we DIDN'T realize that was the cause at the time, but that was where that data of how we did it came from.

There are official mods. All of one currently, but there is a team somewhere now testing mods.

Brad has said that he is going to crush out all the games with the super mods (terraformers, unbalanced big events) in the metaverse at some point.

As far as ships go, there is a Ship Mod program out there. Go ahead and mod your ships.

As far as your complaint goes though, BattleHammers used to rule. BHs and Dreads. Now BHs are useless. Why? Because BHs were being over built, as shown in the submitted game data, by players. I know I used to run straight for them.

Defenders aren't useless. I build a lot more of those then Star Fighters. One per world. Which then get replaced with Battle Axes and whatever else I decide I need, depending on the game. SF's are about worthless, but that is their role. FIRST combat ship. How long do your militia last as your chosen combat unit in Civ(X)? They are only meant to sure kill transports and freighters and constructors, after all. Although with a bit of weapons tech, they can kill other things as well...

The ship and starbase balance issues are real, but I think Star Dock looks at the games submitted to see what ships people BUILD, which tells them what are seen as more useful to the playing communitity.

I have to agree with Ryan, the Metaverse, as it stands, has had a chilling effect on the modding community. The first question anyone has when a mod is discussed is "What will this do to my Metaverse legality?". Simply having some guidelines on what is, and what is not, permissible will go a long way in warming up the modders.

I've said it before- the Library and the Metaverse are, in a way, the antithesis of each other. For the Metaverse to work, it is assumed that everyone is playing roughly the same game. The point of modding is everyone gets to play a different game.

Please note that I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that Stardock's going to have a tough time squaring this circle.

I have faith that Brad & co. will eventually resolve this issue. I will wait patiently for that day. I have to tell you though, it gets lonely in that GC Mods forum all by ourselves. We get maybe 2-3 posts a day. Here, there's like 25 posts a day just in the G.R.O.S.S. thread.

~SDC~

I think what keeps people away from using all the mods isn't legality, its crashability. There have been a few notices posted here by Brad and his people that they aren't really interested in any problems you have, if you are running mods, as it is the mods that cause many crashes. THAT is what chills it.

I'm willing to bet many of the biggest scores in the metaverse were made with the +40% and +60% Enhanced Terraforming mod. Combined, that's +100% to PQ, after all. And you already got the official +20% from the early and official terraforming techs...

That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

I disagree, but in the end, what does it matter? Point is, the modding community is withering on the vine.

~SDC~

Coffee says "To adress Ai tactical and long-term strategic (diplomacy!) weaknesses, your submission would have to include the entire replay. And no one in either the Universe or the Metaverse would have the time to analyze all those replays."

Coffee...actually the save games do include something of a replay. Remember the Adrenaline Vault contreversy a while back? The reviewer was complaining that the AI was cheating. When the reviewer sent Brad the saved game, Brad came up with a rather detailed analysis of what the AI was doing, who they were doing it with, how they suddenly got constructors, etc. In fact, the Galciv Review on Avault had this analysis spelled out. So apparently the save games do retain quite a bit of information. This isn't unheard of as Civilization does about the same thing.

SeanB PS- Apparently the quote feature isn't working quite right for me
[Message Edited]

Well, I have one of the bigger scores on the metaverse
and I have never touched a mod. I know a few of the
other players in the top 10, and I doubt they have
either.

It surely isnt neccesary to use a mod to get a high
score.

Yup, most Metaverse participants I believe stopped downloading Library mods (personally I deleted all mods except Frogboy's, never used the Terra mods) when they mentioned that it could affect the scoring.

I agree with H5-O that this is adversely affecting the interest to mod.

Does anyone think that if there was a Hall of fame for scores from modded games it would be popular? I am curious because my website is considering creating our own HOF for Galciv. I find it very pointless to have your score ripped apart when you post it. I wish I knew the scoring system that the metaverse uses. I played 3 games all were in the 1000 plus range, yet the metaverse only gave me credit for only about 100 points. I thought it would be nice to have an alternative to the metaverse using the same concept "Empires". If I get enough responses we will go ahead with this project. Maybe set it up too allow two sets of scoring. One for no mods, and one with mods. Makes more sense then the way it is currently being done IMHO.

I've been incredibly impressed with the support Galciv has from the devs since release. It's unlike any other game I've bought, especially that Other Space Game.

One of the weirdest things though is the library.
It's part of the official website, and after weeks and weeks almost nothing has been approved. One file. Not even the Angelina Jolie graphics mod which shouldn't affect anybody's score....

I realize some of the events require balancing... what Stardock should do is post a caveat that they may modify events for balancing. I would think the event creators are more interesting in the concept/text remaining true than whether there's a +2% influence bonus or something.

I personally have asked this question over and over. What are the guidelines for create a mod that can be certified. Because of the Metaverse issues it seems like the mod community is really weak. I wish they would address these problems.

We need a moderator or multiple moderators for our library.  We of the development team have been doing tech support both on these forums and through e-mail, as well as updating Gal Civ, so moderating the library is rather low on our priority list.  There would be more certified mods if we had at least one person who only had to go through the library and test with the mods.