Map Generation Inconsistency

I have noted in 1.05 and 1.1x that when a saved game is loaded "first thing" after launching a game, then CTL-N is hit, the map size is wrong. Going from the wrong-sized map to the Main Menu (without exiting) and create a new game -- the map size is correct (the last size created I think, not necessarily the last size played). OK, so CTL-N doesn't give you the setup of the current game, nor does it give you the setup from the last game created or even the last game saved. I think it gives you the last game created within the current "session" or some silliness like that.

In other words, CTL-N and creating new games get their default info from two different places.

(Or, no one else has this problem and my computer is broken!!)

After upgrading to 1.1x I further noticed what I feel is an inconsistancy in the planet frequency between "fresh from the desktop" created games and CTL-N games.

I started 10 games from the desktop on a small map, uncommon frequency (fool / easy).

Yellow Stars Planets Earth PQ
10 10 18
11 13 19
12 15 18
11 12 18
11 13 20
11 15 16
11 13 16
14 16 18
14 14 19
11 12 18
AGV 11.6 AVG 13.3 AVG 18
StDev 1.35 StDev 1.767 StDev 1.247
(1.15 Planets / Star)

Then I started 10 CTL-N games without exiting:

Yellow Stars Planets Starting PQ
8 11 19
12 12 17
11 13 18
15 17 18
9 11 19
13 14 19
13 16 18
11 13 18
11 12 17
10 10 18
AVG 11.3 AVG 12.9 AVG 18.1
StDev 2.058 StDev 2.243 StDev 0.738
(1.14 Planets / Star)

I see a huge difference in the stats. Could be my sample is too small, but it bears out what I have seen anecdotally. The one that caused me concern is when I had a huge (now hugeous!) map, uncommon, and mapped out a full quarter of the stars and found only 8 planets (>15), hit CTL-N and there were 24+ within colonizing range.
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Reply #1 Top
I see a huge difference in the stats. Could be my sample is too small, but it bears out what I have seen anecdotally. The one that caused me concern is when I had a huge (now hugeous!) map, uncommon, and mapped out a full quarter of the stars and found only 8 planets (>15), hit CTL-N and there were 24+ within colonizing range.
End of quote


Actually the averages of the two groups are nearly identical. Less than .2 standard deviations away from each other. That's pretty darn close. I doubt the difference is statistically significant. Now there is a high standard deviation within each group, and a slightly higher one in the second group (exception third column) but that wasn't your point.
Reply #2 Top
actually it was my point. One way of entering the game seems to make the maps vary widely in one aspect (8-15) and the other seems more stable (10-14). When exploring for a good map to play on we, consciously or unconsciously, plot the number of good stars we are seeing against our expectations. If we see fewer stars than we expect in say 20% of the map, we might assume the AI's have a greater density of good stars on the unexplored parts of the map, rather than that the entire map is more sparcely populated than our expectations.

The inverse is also true. I was so excited to have 8 planets in two sectors that I was anticipating a huge maso victory -- only to find the stars everywhere to be of abundant frequency rather than occasional. Some of us choose playing style and beginning attributes according to map size and star frequency, so as the variation grows, the likelyhood of playing a desirable map lessens.

I have played dozens of games, and have started litterally hundreds using CTL-N. Mostly I was curious if anyone else "felt" there was a change, rather than believed my poor statistics.

Cheers!
Reply #3 Top
This is a fascinating observation by Maxtipherous and my hat is off to you, sir.

In my opinion, the fact that ctrl-n stats show a greater standard deviation is exactly what is called for. By hitting ctrl-n I am saying "show me something a little different". So it loosens some variable in order to create either an ever so slightly more generous or slightly more stingy galaxy.

I've also noticed that when I get a great start, I eventually discover that the A.I. somewhere also got a great start, perhaps negating mine. As a result of this thread, I will endeavor to play some maso level games when I feel that I don't have a plethora of planets to colonize and see if the A.I. is equally constrained. :notsure:
Reply #4 Top
By the way Maxipherous,

If you decide to join an empire, the Jedi would be happy to construct a new lightsaber for you! :)
Reply #5 Top
thanx Qui-Gon Jinn
I will remain indie for a while -- I'm holding out for a death-star of my very own *grin*
Reply #6 Top
I almost never Ctrl-N. I can't really see why there would be a difference in the map generation after a CtrlN. It looks like the developper who would do that would just be wasting time, so I believe the stats are not very meaningful. You'd require at least a hundred of starts and respawns to get good statistics.
Reply #7 Top
Thanx for your response LDiCesare
I am a programmer, and I agree that it would be a waste of time. Poor encapsulation in the term I am familiar with.
However, I pointed out the inconsistancy with the default data (wrong size map). It is possible IMHO that the frequency data used is different between the two scenarios.

I also agree my sample is too small -- took an hour though hehe. I am really curious if others "feel" the same thing.

Cheers!
Reply #8 Top
When I used Ctrl-N, my government got changed to one I didn't like, so I don't use it.