What is the hardest map size?

Yea, thats about right, though being stuck in a small
remote corner on a gigantic is very tough.

I thinkk tiny is harder. Gigantic leaves you a lot of time to build up, and you have room to withstand invasion. On medium, I have little experience, but I seem to be getting better results than at tiny, so it's either easier or I have found better strategies.
Tiny remains hardest for me.

I lose more on Tiny maps because of the greater effects of starting position. Still, I don't think it's actually harder as no amount of skill is going to change the outcome when one race gets 7 systems while everyone else is sitting on 1 or 2 (blind luck sometimes lets you overcome it, but that's a whole other situation). Assuming more or less balanced starting positions, Tiny maps are easier than just about anything else because one good war and your power dwarfs everyone else and the final outcome is academic from that point forward.

With out question "tiny maps".

P.S. Thay are highly underrated,my respect gose to the few players that can handel "tiny map,rare planets,all five races at incredible" like RayChau.

#3  by Veteran Code Monkey - 5/24/2003 10:14:44 PM
"I lose more on Tiny maps because of the greater effects of starting position. Still, I don't think it's actually harder as no amount of skill is going to change the outcome when one race gets 7 systems while everyone else is sitting on 1 or 2"
7 systems on tiny? I've never seen it. In most cases the luckiest civ gets 2-3 system with 3-5 planets in total. I always take luck, which seems to guarantee a minimum of 2 planets or very good homeworld. Then it's quite playable.


#4  by Citizen MM77 - 5/24/2003 10:40:09 PM
"With out question "tiny maps".
P.S. Thay are highly underrated,my respect gose to the few players that can handel "tiny map,rare planets,all five races at incredible" like RayChau."


I thought so too at first, but now I'm starting to believe that tiny maps are winnable with probability 1.
The main difference I've noticed is that one has to be really flexible with his strategies when playing on tiny.

alexti,

Any strategies for tiny maps you may have I would LOVE to here.

I need all the help I can get! LOL

Personally, I feel that at incredible, medium is the hardest.

Gigantic gives you loads of resources to play with and it is much easier to avoid war. Once you survive the early game, it is not difficult to employ a couple of tactics to win.

Tiny is tougher but if you do a rush and get the minors first, you are in a good position.

By the way, I always prefer abundant games, rather than rare.

RayChua,

I thought the races would be more BLOOD THIRSTY at rare ?

Yes, I would probably think so, with much less to fight over. Would definitely play more of the rarer settings myself in the future.

On tiny it's hard to have one step-by-step strategy you can always follow. I have sort of key points and I improvise in between.

Ability picks: always luck, plus some combination of PQ, economy, morale and diplomacy bonuses. I tried various combinations of them and didn't notice big difference.

Expansion: don't lease anything, your income is not going to be large (especially on rare) and payments would take a big chunk out of it. Playing on rare pay attention to the evil/good choices, otherwise worthless evil choices might be very valuable on rare. Something like +40% production or +45% starships on a planet make a big difference if you only have 2 (or 3) of them [planets].

Research to diplomacy, change government, build or buy (if still have money) diplo translators. Trade for necessary techs. I usually have to sell diplo translators to one or 2 of the races, I pick ones who are going to be weak. Primary techs to get are trade, deflectors and shields and if there're minor civs nearby impulse drive. Stop your own research.

Build freighters and establish trade routes, at the same time build few defenders.

If there's a minor race neraby, conquer it.

If finances are bad, Build banking centers right away.

With rare planets I develop planet infrastructure, with abundant I rather build starbases in my sector.

Depending on the situation I often have to interrupt development to build few battle axes.

Then I try to either get some trade good, so that I can exchange it for the next generation of techs. If I can't build trade good, I will built more battle axes and trade them for tech. Get tech for battle cruisers early, this ship is [only] useful for trading.

AI is not willing to trade military techs, so I usually research them myself (starting from Battleships or sometimes from Interstellar Tactics). I don't bother with corvettes. Usually AI gets battleships first, but it's not a problem by itself. They took their time to build them. In some cases I may buy battleships though it's very expensive. To reduce the cost I may trade all my trade goods, techs + bunch of ships for it, however I will avoid paying high monthly payments, because it cripples economy too much.

Up to that point I don't worry much about influense or resources. Though I do my best to avoid wars at this stage, sometimes somebody (usually Drengin) will declare the war anyway. I just defend my home sector by battle axes and by building starbase improvements. Eventually AI gets tired of losing ships and makes peace, which give an opportunity to ask him for a few techs:). These wars is one of the reasons I don't go much for resources - it's too hard to defend them outside the home sector.

But this changes after I get dreadnoughts, which I will do quickly after getting battleships. I start actively build battleships while researching dreads, so that I can quickly switch production.

The goal of the next phase is to build up a fleet of few dreads and comabt transports and have couple constructors in reserve. I may not complete this stage if there's good opportunity to join the [war] party
If 2 races are fighting and see easy planet to pick (preferrably somebody's last) I go for it even if half ready. If such opportunity doesn't present itself I finish the phase and go to full scale war. When fleets are in position, first step is to take out military bases.

How to pick up an opponent for the first real war. This depends on many factors:
- Drengin often leaves no choice but go against them
- somebody have 1 or 2 nice planets left. Remember, you'll inherit their various "capitals"
- somebody has good resources (economy,morale,military)
The first war must be finished quickly, so I don't start it until I have enough force to complete it in 1 or 2 months.

This actually concludes the difficult part of the game. The next step is inevitably to built up some more power, let the population grow a bit, buy few weapons/defense improving techs (AI doesn't charge much for them) and go to war again. This time I usually go against the strongest race, because they're still developing/growing faster than me. Funny thing at this stage is that sometimes I just don't have enough population to take them over, so for a while I have to patrol the space and destroy their ships as soon as they build them:) This may last for a few years until my population will grow enough:)

After that you can choose any victory method you like.

I agree with that. I must also say that the starting position point doesn't apply as much if you play rare tiny. I'd love to have an even rarer setting where there are no habitable planets beyond those you start on in a tiny map. It would take some luck out of the way.

So far I tried Tiny/Rare 1x, Medium/Common 2x, Huge/Common 1x and Gigantic/Common 1x.

I was blown away on tiny.

On medium I won once but it was hard. The other game was a loss.

On Huge I had a relatively easy win.

On Gigantic I did not stand a Chance.

So hard to say is the hardest...

At the moment I am playing Gigantic/Rare but I did not meet any of the Aliens yet and so can not tell if it's hard or not. However, I feel that for the setting "rare" I found quite a lot planets. But that might just be a feeling.

Yup. Tiny is a tough one. I never manage to get a firm position from where I can safely expand. But then, maybe I'm just too bad a player...

~SDC~

If you take ctrl-N out of the picture then I'd say gigantic has the most pain potential, because you can get some truly horrible starting locations. Given the AI boost to production and such at incredible, I can't see you digging yourself out one of those '7 stars in the corner' starts.

Code Monkey and Ray Chua make good points about Tiny, when the galaxy is that small then momentum is the key: whoever starts grabbing first will have a huge percentage gain from the total planet pool. So I'd say Tiny is the hardest overall because just a little bad luck in even a single area could tank the game for you.

I find in general;

The more resorces you have the more power you have to shape and pick a path for victory.

The less resorces you have the more percise you must be to even stay in the game!

Gigantic = more

Tiny = less

im working on a tiny right now, however not at any big difficulty levels. one thing i noticed with tiny maps and rare habitible planets, is to get on good terms with the minors. with rare planets, the majors will only be able to scoop up maybe 2 planets at the most (including you), so no one will have much money to afford a lot of ships, and also no one will have a lot of reasearch power. i get almost all of my money from selling all of my techs to everyone, and that brings in just enough cash for me to support like 9 corvettes.

the minors are a big deal in the tiny maps. for some reason, the minors are the ones the best off, they are the ones with the most techs, trade good, galactic wonders AND money! i can get all 6 majors near $0 for most of the time from selling them all of techs i get, but the minors for some reason allways have a few thousand dollars always on hand, and not only that, they can reasearch techs even before i get a chance to sell it to them. So what i do is that i trade only with the minors, so that way i can get good relations with them.

once i get a nice number of ships and transports, i send them to a planet owned by a major, and i pay for as many minors to wage war with them (you have to when all you can afford to support is like 9 ships). i then wait for the minors to destroy the planets deffences, and once that is done, i send in my transports that i had parked outside that planet. once you invade your first planet, you will be ahead of the game. i then repeat the same thing over and over again.

i dont know how this works on the much harder difficulty levels, but im guessing the strategy would be around the same.

~SDC~

Tiny rare all incrediable AI, no mods, no cheats
lost quite a few points reporting it, but hey
we still ahead of Midwest empire by like 200 points
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It also depends on the star density. A tiny map is less affected by this. On a gigantic map, tight clusters with a bad starting position can make it *very* tough.

But tiny can be very hard as well. Even small playing with all 5 on intelligent can be a challange. I've lost systems pretty quick to another race in a sector where they have 2. And it is a race for the resources, which easily screws up other strategies you may have.

All in all.. I'm just pleased that there is such variety in difficulty. Make all the other races the opposite alignment that you intend to be. Hit ctrl-n until you *do* get a fairly poor or hideous starting position. Small maps on the hardest with all races. Plenty of ways to choose your poison! LOL

fleabitfox

Staffa,

Nice going on you victory.

I wish I could do that but maybe in time. alexti, Please forgive my rudeness I never did thank you for your help on tiny maps. THANK YOU.
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also, on tiny, if a minor appears after you have transports available to you, invade them right away. if you can get to them even before they build a ship you are very luck, means you will get an extra 15+ quality planet, with a realativly small population.

this happend to my game, a minor appeared right beside one of my 2 major starsystems. i took over that minor in the same month they appeared!

Tiny/Rare is my favorite combination. I really like being able to play an entire game in 2 hours. However, I've only worked my way up to Intelligent difficulty. The metaverse does not really reward play on tiny/rare, but I decided to submit all my scores anyway (even my losses).

I pick +3 trade routes and luck. I pick the mercantile party, but I change this from game to game.

I ctrl-N until I get at least two 15+ planets in my home sector (earth plus one other). I know this is somewhat cheesy, but having only one planet makes the difficulty 2 notches higher.

At the start of the game, I land my colony ship on the other planet. I fund at 100%, with 50% military (scouts) and 50% research (medical theory and basic environmental control). I set my survey ship to auto-survey. As soon as I get 2 scouts (or 1 scout plus an anomaly ship), I turn off military. I start producing aphrodesiac on Earth as soon as I get basic environmental control. I'm building soil enhancement on my other planet. I use my 2 scouts to find the other 5 AIs and the 2 minors. The Alexians and Carinoids seem to be present in every game. I'm hoping that one of the minors will be in the same horizontal or vertical sector from earth, for my trade routes. Otherwise, I pick a weak major to be my trading partner (weak means "has only one planet").

I now rush for diplomatic translators and trade, with 50% social and 50% research (to get down the cost of aphrodesiac, so I can lease aphrodesiac and the diplomatic translators on the same turn). As soon as I get Diplomacy, I lease-finish Aphrodesiac on Earth and the translators on my other planet, turning off social production for that turn. I'm now researching trade. I try to have some stored military production on earth so I can crank out my first freighter immediately after getting Trade. By now, I should have discovered most of the AI players, and I sell aphrodesiac to the minors and the weaker AIs. If a major AI as 2 or more planets, they are going to be my major threat and I withhold the aphrodesiac (and other trade goods) from them. (I'm not sure if that's a good idea.) I will also pick up some tech as I trade; only Defense Theory appears to not be worth it. On Tiny/Rare, the aphrodesiac isn't that valuable, because you hit your morale population limit pretty fast; the AI does not seem to devalue aphrodesiac for tiny/rare.

As soon as I get Trade, I crank out 6 freighters from earth (1 extra so it's in position when I get Advanced Trade; remember that I have +3 trade routes). Once I get trade, I go with 1/3 each for military, social, and research. Now, I get Industrial Theory and Nano Metal Composition. By the time I get Nano Metal Composition, I should have earned enough from selling Aphrodesiac that I can lease both Frictionless Clothing and Tri-Strontium Steel in the same turn. If none of the AIs have Nano Metal Composition, I may get in a few extra turns of normal production before leasing. I'm not sure if this is right.

Now, I need to get some corvettes, before the AI tribute demands start coming in. Hopefully, I got an anomaly ship to hold of the tribute demands. I research Phasers, as I will probably get Photons in exchange for a trade good. I try to keep one or two trade goods away from each AI; I can focus on the harder research projects, and trade to fill in my holes. Plus, I want the AI to replenish its cash before selling another trade good.

I'll probably have picked up Impulse Drive (transports) at some point, and I can start "spacing" population as soon as morale drops below 100. I keep an invasion fleet ready at all times, so that when war breaks out I can make sure I get the extra planet. (with a speed boost from my Gravity Accelerators, of course). I sell ships to my trading partner to keep them in the game; I can usually sell ships for more than my cost of production (or for tech). The minor civ planets are probably going to be the best available, so it's important to make sure that another race doesn't get to invade the minors.

At this point, the game gets interesting. One or two of the AIs will have 2+ planets and I really need to keep them from getting a 3rd; the powerful AIs will start pushing around the weaker AIs. One of the races may get the increasing-power artifact or the Draginol event. If a race happened to get a high-class planet, or gets the +planet quality event, they will be a major threat.

At some point, I will get sensor drones, so I can check out the map for enemy civs that are about to fall. I found Eyes of the Universe to be worth it, even on Tiny/Rare, because I don't need as many sensor drones.

If I get a chance to build some constructors, I build a trade-enhancing starbase along my trade routes, which I stack between the same pair of planets.

I keep a watch to see if any AI or minor has Advanced Trade, Controlled Gravity, Interstellar Business, etc. If so, I trade for the tech and then lease the good or wonder. I keep positive cash at all times, because of income from my trade routes and selling trade goods.

I give up on resources; the AI gets all of them. When war breaks out, I try to always keep a spare constructor or two so I can grab the resources that get vacated. The AI doesn't exploit resources well, but an AI that gets several resources is still dangerous.

I've had lots of close and interesting games on tiny/rare, playing at intelligent. I try to pick up as many trade goods and wonders as possible. At some point, I need to work on getting better ships. If I get dragged into a war early, I am likely to lose. Most of my wars last only 1 turn, as I eliminate an AI on the same turn I declare war.

I'm putting a hold on playing larger maps until the rally point feature is available.

Hairy The Taco,
and
fsk,

Thanks for the tips.

P.S. fsk, I agree the scoring for "tiny maps" is under rated.

Why do you waste money on scouts on a tiny map? The survey ship is a great scout. You'll get early contact soon enough anyway, and resources aren't really needed (except if you can prevent someone from getting a military resource). Note that I don't ctl-N, so my colony ship actually becomes a scout.
I usually trade with major civs. That makes them like you. Not on maso. Only the Alexians pay cash, the rest just give handfuls of tech. Getting Frictionless Clothing is usually enough.

The ai tends to get TriStrontium first, so if you're ready to bypass that, you can wait for it to be completed before leasing (slightly isky).

Until now my own strategy is somewhat similar. I just don't ever ever use corvettes. Plus if you trade with them, you don't have to give them that much money, and you can probably pay it instead of leasing anyway.

With good diplo, Phasers can often be obtained against Diplomacy (which the ai will research anyway).

Yes, that is a good idea, but you mustn't get them broke by selling them. Again, you can't sell anything for money at maso except to Alexians, so go for tech.

What use are all those sensors and drones? You just need to check the military rating graph.
Nice to have, but you probably are better off with 1 less +1 trade route and a +trade bonus instead.
Note my comments are not for a warmonger game but for cultural/tech/allied victory, though you could try to get a military victory (the last ai may be tough, though).
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What do you think about the star selection:
loosely coupled (right name?)
tightly coupled (right name?)
scattered

I have been wondering if this selection increases or decreases the difficulty of the map??
It appears to me that scattered seems easier?

There is an easy strategy for winning on Tiny maps.

Research straight to and build the trade goods. Then break the economic backs of the AIs by selling all of the goods to them. It won't be long before they are all broke and you are way ahead of everyone in tech.

By the time you have your 4th trade good, winning is almost an inevitability. You can actually run the table and win the game when you get frigates. Also, I never need to build an additional colony ship unless I luck into a multi-planet system.

This is such a straightforward and easy way to win that I use Control-N on Tiny maps to start with more difficult positions.