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Metaverse cheating - multiple 60K games every day

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Metaverse cheating - multiple 60K games every day

from Stardock Forums
Look at top players.

A few 60K in one day Gigantic or Huge/Masochistic for example. It takes a few days to finish, and the top player has some days showing he finished 10 or so this kind of games. Every game has the same setting and everything as shown in Metaverse profile.

Is it some kind of Save/Load before winning and multiple submissions to Metaverse bug or something?

This kills the idea of Metaverse, and I think cheaters should be punished.
3,965 views 98 replies
Reply #26 from Stardock Forums Top


With a good computor and all day to sit there and hit turn repeatedly, one could easily finish 15-20 games (huge maso alliance win) in a 24 hour timeframe if they didn't sleep. I'm sure someone has done it.
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Darn. I only managed 13 in 24hrs... LOL

~SDC~
Reply #27 from Stardock Forums Top
you can still easily finish a game in under an hour if you know what the trick is
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Exactly. I can crank out 60K games every 2 hours easy if I actually had the time to do it (not good enough to do it under and hour). I don't have the time so I'm lucky to put in a game every few days. But if I dedicated a Sunday to it I could do 8 games in a day easy.
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #28 from Stardock Forums Top
Somewhere in the docs it says you can resubmit a game 1 time. I just resubmited a few games with the new version of AP and got a score that was a bit larger than the previous score.

Reply #29 from Stardock Forums Top
Somewhere in the docs it says you can resubmit a game 1 time. I just resubmited a few games with the new version of AP and got a score that was a bit larger than the previous score.
End of quote


The question is not can you resubmit, but does it count as a new game? Or does it replace the previous submittal?
Reply #30 from Stardock Forums Top
It does not count as a new game.  You actually have to do some hacking to get the metaverse to accept a duplicate game.
Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top
You actually have to do some hacking to get the metaverse to accept a duplicate game.
End of quote


CariElf, do you mean they have to hack the submitted game, or the GalCiv program? There seems to be some urban legends springing up that people who submit multiple games in one day are somehow cheating the system to be able to do that.
Reply #32 from Stardock Forums Top

People can binary edit saved games so that it gets by our check. And they are.

What pepole don't understand is that when you submit a game, it also submits the data that allows us to recreate the game. So we can tell if it's the same game.

I should also point out that we reserve the right to remove any game submitted from the metaverse for any reason we choose. If we feel cheese is being used to win top spots, we'll remove those games. If someone doesn't like our rules, they can go set up their own ladder and cheese themselves.

Reply #33 from Stardock Forums Top
The question is not can you resubmit, but does it count as a new game? Or does it replace the previous submittal?
End of quote


It does not count as a new game.
End of quote


My resubmitted games just replaced the ones that were already listed.

Reply #34 from Stardock Forums Top
I should also point out that we reserve the right to remove any game submitted from the metaverse for any reason we choose. If we feel cheese is being used to win top spots, we'll remove those games. If someone doesn't like our rules, they can go set up their own ladder and cheese themselves.
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Frogboy, I would much rather you wipe out these peoples entire scores and award them a new medal indicating Cheater.

Reply #35 from Stardock Forums Top
If we feel cheese is being used to win top spots, we'll remove those games. If someone doesn't like our rules, they can go set up their own ladder and cheese themselves.
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Sounds rather arbitrary. Can you spell out the rules so we can follow them? What is cheese to you? Is playing more than one game a day cheese? Is playing 10 games a day cheese. If the game is supposed to be only played one way, please tell us what way that is, or fix the game so it cannot be played any other way. Is bribing the AI cheese? Is using Terror Stars cheese? Is Alliance Victor cheese? I am really confused over this now.

When you say people are hacking the submitted games, then I agree that something should be done. How do you determine that. I have valid games that I cannot submit to the Metaverse for some unknown reason. They submitted before the period in which I could not submit and they submitted after the period in which I could not submit. I did nothing in between. Yet, those games won't submit. Why? CariElf cannot tell me because I use Mods. Is using Mods cheese?


[Message Edited]
Reply #36 from Stardock Forums Top
Actually, the more I think about this the more distrubed I become. In the forums, some people have decided that if you don't play the game (not cheat by editing submitted games and resubmitting) they way they think you should play, then that is cheese and worse, it is cheating. You are giving these guys credence in their belief that their way is the only way. Go to the beginning of this thread and you will see what I mean. Some of us play the game because we like it. Some of us even enjoy submitting games to the Metaverse. Some of us help Stardock by helping others learn how to play. Some of us have developed strategies for playing different styles of games that help develop the diversity of playing. All of this is provided free to Stardock - and it help sell the games.

To get back a response that says in effect,
If someone doesn't like our rules, they can go set up their own ladder and cheese themselves.
End of quote
is really not a response that answers the concerns expressed. I don't recall anyone saying anything about Stardock and the way the Metaverse is run. This really comes as a shot to the back of the head

>:(
Reply #37 from Stardock Forums Top
A veteran player passed on a strategy to me which can deliver a 30 minute Maso Huge 60000 victory. You don't have time for cheese. Save games turned off. I Don't think any of the top players needs to cheat.

I hope this allegation turns out to be an urban Myth.

The problem with such a game it not fun. The fun of this game is the interaction with the AI and winning different ways. I have read people doing a game in 20 minutes. Big deal it would not be fun.



Reply #38 from Stardock Forums Top
I should also point out that we reserve the right to remove any game submitted from the metaverse for any reason we choose. If we feel cheese is being used to win top spots, we'll remove those games. If someone doesn't like our rules, they can go set up their own ladder and cheese themselves.
End of quote


Their house... their rules. I don't have any problems with this concept. And that people is the bottom line.
Reply #39 from Stardock Forums Top
Their house... their rules. I don't have any problems with this concept. And that people is the bottom line.
End of quote


I agree. But, since they invited us into their house, they should post the rules and not ask every one to figure them out as part of the game.
Reply #40 from Stardock Forums Top
No arguemnt there.
Reply #41 from Stardock Forums Top
My take on this is, some people are hacking games that are already submitted to change the ID of that game. This means that they can resubmit it as a different game when it is not.

I am pretty sure that is the CHEESE Frogboy is talking about. If it is I would question his choice of wording and say it for what it is ... CHEATING!

I do not feel that stardock is upset that people have figured out a way to legitimately play LARGE/MASO games in 30 minutes and post many a day.
Reply #42 from Stardock Forums Top
sounds to me like they don't care how someone plays as long as they do play the game, i think it's a good idea to do the audit, plus it seems we're getting upset over this, even though stardock is doing this to make it more fair for us, taking there time and money to check these games.

my two bc's :)
Reply #43 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree. But, since they invited us into their house, they should post the rules and not ask every one to figure them out as part of the game.
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Here is the http://www.galciv.com/metaverse/legend.asp for the rules which are posted.

The rules say

Important Notice: The Metaverse submits more than just your score. It also uploads game data that can be used to calculate ones score. If we believe users are modifying the game in such a way designed to artificially inflate scores, we will remove that player from the Metaverse. There will be no warnings.
End of quote


They did however give a warning saying that they will remove the cheaters games.



Reply #44 from Stardock Forums Top
There our cheese moves that are openly discussed and widely used and there is cheating. Tampering with the binary code would be cheating. So don't call it cheese.
They incourage and approve mods so that is not cheating but it is cheese. I would like them to clarify where the line between cheese and cheating is in there eyes.
Reply #45 from Stardock Forums Top
Here is the Link for the rules which are posted.
End of quote


If these are the only rules posted, then I agree with Newfy that Frogboy used a poor choice of words
I am pretty sure that is the CHEESE Frogboy is talking about. If it is I would question his choice of wording and say it for what it is ... CHEATING!
End of quote


Reply #46 from Stardock Forums Top
By the way, you can check the Metaverse ranking to see who was at least the top player refered to, if this is true.
Reply #47 from Stardock Forums Top
Yes, and I don't believe it. I think there were 2 players removed as I moved up to spots. Who was the second.
Reply #49 from Stardock Forums Top
whoa! now that IS unexpected...when were these two removed...i also have trouble believe that one of them was cheating, afterall he doesn't seem like that type...
Reply #50 from Stardock Forums Top
Lothmorg the black and the renegade are no longer on the metaverse rankings.