Republicans fold..

Sleeping with the enemy..

Why the Republicans folded on the so called nuke option is beyond me.

Now when My President wants to place someone on the HIGH court {supreme} there is going to be another long drawn out brawl
and more blabbermouthing from the left.

They should have just pulled the trigger on the slack jawed dems and be done with it.

Last time I checked this was still america and the majority rules, I know that this was brokered by a couple moderates I respect McCain and Leiberamn but why put off the inevitable?

To make a deal with the much weaker party to forstall filibusters is a joke, The republicans have a majority, they should use it.
11,133 views 22 replies
Reply #1 Top
Too many high ranking Senate Republicans are part of "The Get Along Gang". They don't seem to care about the Constitutional mandate of Seperation of Powers, as long as they can get warm "Bipartisan" fuzzies, they consider their job done.

The Democrats, once again, lie about how they'll only filibuster for "extroadinary circumstances"... what, like any nominee Prs. Bush would name for the Supreme Court? If the Senate Democrats want to play the "extroardinary circumstances" game, let's see how Justice Ruth Buzzy Ginsburg would stack up to their ""extroardinary circumstances" criteria. A person who advocated lowering the age of consent to 12, and wanted all organizations that recognized a difference between males and females (private or public) disbanded (no more medals for female athelets I guess). Nah, nothing "extroardinary" there.

When will both the Democrats and Republicans end the stupidity and start governing!!!
Reply #2 Top

extroadinary circumstances"...

Define Extraordinary.  I defy any one to.  Want to bet it does includes anyone right of Hillary?

Some of the repubs caved.  But Frist says he will fight on.  I Hope so.

Reply #3 Top
1 by ParaTed2k
Tuesday, May 24, 2005


When will both the Democrats and Republicans end the stupidity and start governing!!!


exactly ted, while these two parties are bizy playing politics the nation is getting flushed down the shitter.
Reply #4 Top
#2 by Dr. Guy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005


Define Extraordinary. I defy any one to. Want to bet it does includes anyone right of Hillary?
Some of the repubs caved. But Frist says he will fight on. I Hope so.


I can give you the "liberal" definition of extraordinary, it means anyone that will go by the law as written and not mandate and legislate from the bench as so many liberals love.
Reply #5 Top

From Bill Frist just minutes ago:

As promised, an update on the judicial nominee front ...

Last night, an arrangement was reached by fourteen of my colleagues. I was not a party to it, and here's why...

I do not agree with it because it does not get the job done of ensuring fair, up or down votes on all judicial nominees sent to the Senate by the President.

It is my firm belief that--on principle--all judicial nominees deserve an up or down vote on the floor of the United States Senate.

The new understanding, if followed in good faith, affirms my principle to some extent. It marks some break in the partisan obstruction of the past two years, and ensures that seven outstanding jurists-including Priscilla Owen, Janice Rogers Brown and William Pryor--will get the fair up or down votes they have long deserved.

But it does not grant fairness to all other jurists. It still allows mindless filibusters to be triggered at the whim of a minority more interested in obstruction than progress.

And that is a shame.

So make no mistake, the Constitutional Option remains on the table. If the minority again acts in bad faith--if they resume their campaign of mindless judicial obstruction--I will NOT hesitate to call it to a vote.

Not for a second.

For too long on judicial nominees, the filibuster was abused to facilitate partisanship, and subvert principle.

We have exposed the injustice of judicial obstruction in the last Congress, and advanced the core Constitutional principle that all judicial nominees deserve a fair up or down vote on the floor of the U.S. Senate.

So the Senate will begin to execute this arrangement, with a vote up or down on Priscilla Owen. Giving up their minority-party led obstructionism, the Senate invoked cloture on her today by a vote of 81-18. Priscilla Owen--after four years, two weeks and two days--will finally receive the fair, up or down vote she deserves.

And, mark my words, more judges like her will follow in the days ahead. I hope the minority will respect the will of the majority, and give judges the courtesy, the respect, of a fair, up or down vote.


Bill Frist

Reply #6 Top

And Dole:

Senator Dole Reacts to Judicial Compromise

Senator Elizabeth Dole (R-NC), Chair of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, issued the following statement on the judicial compromise:

"Although I am pleased that some of the President's qualified judicial nominees are finally getting the fair up or down vote they deserve, I am disappointed that not all nominees will be afforded that same courtesy. The understanding made by the group of fourteen made clear that judicial philosophy is not a legitimate reason to filibuster qualified judges. If Democrats should choose to continue their unprecedented use of the filibuster, we should immediately move to the constitutional option. Although I believe a vote on the constitutional option was certainly justified today, I am glad that it has not been taken off the table for future confirmation debates."

Reply #7 Top
When will both the Democrats and Republicans end the stupidity and start governing!!!


When they can no longer continue to claim the high ground by pointing the finger at the other as the problem.

In my opinion, that is either through the rise of one or more third parties, or some member on both sides just sacking up and deciding to be individuals, instead of tools for ideologies that aren't even followed.

Reply #8 Top
5 by Dr. Guy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005


6 by Dr. Guy
Tuesday, May 24, 2005


thanx for posting these doc, I for one am glad the option of nuking the dems into submission is not lost.

Listening for the sound of high explosives...........
Reply #9 Top
Reply By: Demosthenes LockePosted: Tuesday, May 24, 2005When will both the Democrats and Republicans end the stupidity and start governing!!!When they can no longer continue to claim the high ground by pointing the finger at the other as the problem.In my opinion, that is either through the rise of one or more third parties, or some member on both sides just sacking up and deciding to be individuals, instead of tools for ideologies that aren't even followed.


excellant point..
Reply #10 Top
In my opinion, that is either through the rise of one or more third parties, or some member on both sides just sacking up and deciding to be individuals, instead of tools for ideologies that aren't even followed.


I think you mean Sucking up. And good thoughtful response. i dont agre, but I want to think more on it. (I dont agree because congress is the great equalizer - where great men become ordinary, and weak ones stay that way).
Reply #11 Top
Reply By: Dr. GuyPosted: Tuesday, May 24, 2005In my opinion, that is either through the rise of one or more third parties, or some member on both sides just sacking up and deciding to be individuals, instead of tools for ideologies that aren't even followed.I think you mean Sucking up. And good thoughtful response. i dont agre, but I want to think more on it. (I dont agree because congress is the great equalizer - where great men become ordinary, and weak ones stay that way).


I heard that the whole job of congress is to "advise and consent" when it concerns presidential nominations, no where is the job description does it say advise and obstruct.
Reply #12 Top

I heard that the whole job of congress is to "advise and consent" when it concerns presidential nominations, no where is the job description does it say advise and obstruct.

Ask Dean!  Up to 7 and rising fast on his foot in mouth disease!

hey, Frist and Dole said no way.  They are going to fight.  Sometimes it takes a martyr.  Sorry about one of those clowns.  he is my senator, but I have never liked him.  He is better than Boxer, but not by a lot.

Reply #13 Top
hey, Frist and Dole said no way. They are going to fight


I think bill frist and shrillery should get nekkid and fight it out to the death. eh eh eh eh
Reply #14 Top
The Democrats, once again, lie about how they'll only filibuster for "extraordinary circumstances"... what, like any nominee Prs. Bush would name for the Supreme Court?


Hey Ted you do realize of course that the ones being filibustered are not supreme count judges? The buttheads are filibustering appellate court judges. Also an FYI... when they tell you that they have OKed 210 out of GW's 219. Ask them how many appellate court judges were OKed. The number stands at 53%.
Reply #15 Top
#14 by drmiler
Tuesday, May 24, 2005


Hey Ted you do realize of course that the ones being filibustered are not supreme count judges? The buttheads are filibustering appellate court judges. Also an FYI... when they tell you that they have OKed 210 out of GW's 219. Ask them how many appellate court judges were OKed. The number stands at 53%.


I am sure ted knows doc, but the whole filibuster thing is ABOUT the supreme court... down the road a bit.
Reply #16 Top

I am sure ted knows doc, but the whole filibuster thing is ABOUT the supreme court... down the road a bit.


Nope. The whole filibuster thing started over the "9" apellate court judges the dems were holding up.
And they're holding on to the nuke option for "any" judicial nominees not just the supreme court. From about.com


Senate Procedures

US Senate Republican leadership has publicly decried Democrat efforts to block Presidential nominations that require Senate approval. Senate leadership threatens to invoke a "nuclear option" which would ban the minority from blocking judicial nominees.

Some news reports have characterized the filibuster, a historical method used to delay vote or block debate, as unconstitutional, unfair, a historical relic. Others report that it is a tool that protects the rights of the minority against the tyrrany of the majority.

By their nature, filibusters elevate visiblity and have, as a by-product, the potential to inspire compromise. A final vote can only be taken if 60 Senators agree; this is called a vote of cloture (vote to end the filibuster).

According to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service (CRS), cloture votes to end a filibuster were held on 14 appeals court nominations from 1980 to 2000.
Reply #17 Top
16 by drmiler
Tuesday, May 24, 2005


doc, we are argueing the same thing, of course todays fight is about appellete court and appeals court judges, I am talking about the fight behind THIS fight, everyone knows President Bush is going to get 1 to 3 supreme court justices on his watch. that is what this is really about, get it?
Reply #18 Top
doc, we are argueing the same thing, of course todays fight is about appellete court and appeals court judges, I am talking about the fight behind THIS fight, everyone knows President Bush is going to get 1 to 3 supreme court justices on his watch. that is what this is really about, get it?


Duh....I think so!
Reply #19 Top
Hats off to McCain for validating the idea that people can be denied appointments because of their personal beliefs. It's not like this is America or anything...

If it were a gay appointee that had a background in activism and someone suggested barring them, these hypocritical prats would raise hell. Screw them, this kind of behavior invalidates all their high-minded blathering about rights and the Constitution. They'd wipe their asses with it if it suited them.

Reply #20 Top
Reply By: drmilerPosted: Tuesday, May 24, 2005doc, we are argueing the same thing, of course todays fight is about appellete court and appeals court judges, I am talking about the fight behind THIS fight, everyone knows President Bush is going to get 1 to 3 supreme court justices on his watch. that is what this is really about, get it?Duh....I think so!


tis ok doc , it's hard to convey an entire arguement in print for me, when you disagree say so.. and I will endevor to clarify.
Reply #21 Top
Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Tuesday, May 24, 2005Hats off to McCain for validating the idea that people can be denied appointments because of their personal beliefs. It's not like this is America or anything...If it were a gay appointee that had a background in activism and someone suggested barring them, these hypocritical prats would raise hell. Screw them, this kind of behavior invalidates all their high-minded blathering about rights and the Constitution. They'd wipe their asses with it if it suited them.


I agree, the "deal" was more of a covering of asses than most can see. As usual you are right, if a republican tried blocking a gay
activist, with a history of legislating from the bench the left would cry like stuck pigs.
Reply #22 Top

Latest From Frist

The confrontation over judicial filibusters is the greatest single Constitutional issue to confront the Senate in our lifetime.

That is because this issue involves the relationship between the Senate and the Presidency and the relationship between the Senate and the courts. In addition, it involves interaction between majority and minority parties within the Senate itself. The Senate confronts many important issues every year, but none of them touches the grand institutions of American democracy the way this one does.

The President has the Constitutional obligation to appoint judges. And the Senate has Constitutional responsibility to offer its advice and consent. For 214 years, the Senate gave every nominee brought to the floor a fair up or down vote. Most we accepted, some we rejected. But all those nominees got a vote.

In the last Congress, the minority leadership embarked on a new and dangerous course. They routinely filibustered 10 of President Bush's appellate court nominees and threatened filibusters on six more. Organized and fueled by the minority leadership, these filibusters could not be broken. By filibuster, the minority denied the nominees a confirmation vote and barred the full Senate from exercising its obligation to advise and consent.

The purpose of the filibusters was not only to keep the President's nominees off the bench, it was to wrest effective control of the appointments process from the President. Anyone who did not pass the minority leadership's ideological litmus tests would be filibustered. That meant a minority would dictate who the President should appoint if he expected the nominee to get a confirmation vote. This was a power grab of unprecedented proportions. And with more filibusters threatened for this Congress, the power grab would become even bolder and more entrenched.

Fundamental Constitutional principles were called into question. These included the separation of powers, checks and balances, the independence of the judiciary, and negation of the Senate's right to advise and consent. The minority claimed the right to impose a 60 vote threshold before a nominee could pass muster, for that is number needed to invoke cloture and break a filibuster. The Constitution doesn't say that. It only requires a majority to confirm. But for a minority spinning novel Constitutional theories, the real Constitution took a back seat.

The Republican majority tried at first to invoke cloture on each of the nominees. But driven by the minority leadership, the filibusters proved resilient to cloture. Then, we introduced a filibuster reform proposal and took it through committee. But it died without action because it was sure to be filibustered itself. So, we turned to the voters, and the election strengthened our majority. But the minority ignored the election and dug in its heels.

Faced with the certainty that the minority would expand its filibusters, Republicans faced a critical choice. Either accept the filibuster power grab as the new standard for the Senate, or restore the tradition of up or down votes for the nominees. My collective Republican Leadership decided to stand for a principle. And that principle is clear. It is clear without trimming or equivocation: every nominee brought to the floor shall get an up or down vote.

The Constitution gives the Senate the power to govern itself. And we were fully committed to use that power to establish a process by which a confirmation vote would occur after reasonable debate. This approach had a lot of precedent. The minority attempted to demean it by calling it the nuclear option. But the nuclear option is what they themselves detonated with their filibuster power grab. The proper term for our response is Constitutional option, because we would rely on the Constitution's power of self-governance to restore Senate traditions barring judicial filibusters.

Against their nuclear option, the Constitutional option is the only effective antidote.

The moment of truth was to have come on May 24. But action was preempted by an agreement between seven Republicans and seven Democrats to forestall use of the Constitutional option in exchange for confirmation votes on several nominees and a promise that filibusters would only be maintained in extraordinary circumstances. I was not a party to that agreement nor was the Republican Leadership.

Now we move into a new and uncertain phase. Under the agreement, this week the Senate confirmed Priscilla Owen to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. Several more of the nominees will follow her. Priscilla Owen, a gentle lady, accomplished lawyer and brilliant Texas jurist was unconscionably denied an up or down vote for more than four years. The minority distorted her record, cast aspersions on her abilities, and rendered her almost unrecognizable. She had the fortitude to see the process through. And very late, but at long last, she was confirmed.

Without the Constitutional option, Priscilla Owen would never have come to a vote. Neither would any of the other nominees.

Without the Constitutional option, judicial filibusters would have become a standard instrument of minority party policy. The agreement is based on the trust that casual use of judicial filibusters is over.

Without the Constitutional option, the minority would have adhered to the path it was on and deal brokers would have had no deal to broker.

I am now hopeful but wary. As Ronald Reagan was fond to say, trust but verify. If nominees are confirmed and the sword of the filibuster is sheathed, then the Republican Leadership can be proud that its courage arrested a dangerous and destructive trend. If filibusters again erupt under circumstances other than extraordinary, we will put the Constitutional option back on the table and move to implement it.

Abraham Lincoln once said that when it is not possible to do the best, it is best to do what is possible. Standing fast for the principle of fair up or down votes, we have made real progress. That is something we all can celebrate. And that principle will be our guidepost as the rest of this great Constitutional drama unfolds.

Bill Frist