Metaverse Dimplomacy an All Empire Council Meeting

Bah! If the other(s) complain about an empire of 40 people (or 50) having an undue advantage when some of the old empires have 79, 90, even 99 people, then those guys need to get BETTER PLAYERS! Will determines who rules the Meta, not pure numbers. I want some lean, mean fledgeling machine to come on up and show the big guys how it is done. You know why? Because I know my crew will show them the meaning of being owned. Put up or shut up, other empires. Come on up and get us.
[Message Edited]

Gerakken,
you shouldn't dismiss peoples complaints so rapidly. It is a valid point that smaller empires may be intimidated by the big players. Is there intimidation going on? I don't know, but any active intimidation should be frowned upon. Making smaller empires feel inferior with comments like is not nice (yes I know it was a joke). The metaverse should be about fun, not just feeling superior to other empires. Empires should be encouraged to form and play just for fun and not to compete with the big empires on score. Maybe we all need to keep this in mind on the forums?

Personally I think the top empires are all doing great jobs at forming communities and expanding the fun of the game. There have been many posts on the forum though that have been leaning towards the abusive and 'we are superior' attitude that we need to guard against. Any empire can displace the big boys with enough players and high enough scores but that need not be their aims. We need to respect that and stop treating all empires and players as if that should be their aim.

Paul.


~SDC~
[Message Edited]

There is no need for anyone to feel discouraged. If you have been on the board long enough, you will know that we have had long periods of time where there were runaway leaders on the Empire board.

When I joined one week after the game was launched, it was Apolyton. Then the Euros. Then GROSS. But once players become dormant, we see how quickly the rankings can change.

So join the empire of your choosing and have fun with the people in the empire and outside of the empire. Unless the sole purpose of your empire is to reach Number 1, there is no reason why you cannot have fun empiring even if you don't ever reach first.

But if you really would like to be part of an empire which might one day become first, roll up your sleeve -play and recruit! Did you really expect that honor to be handed to you on a platter? Yes, it's not fair that we don't all start at the same time but like they say, life's not fair, get used to it.

No one can intimidate you unless you let them. Ignore those immature ones and just have fun. There will always be friendly bantering to spice up the race but I'm sure we are all adult enough to know where the line is.

For aspiring empires, carve out a good niche for yourself and build on it. Have fun, perserve at it and folks would definitely want to be part of your empire. Look at the Jedis if you want to know what I mean.

Can we bring booze to this council meeting?

No matter...

Solitair,

There is no one way to encourage new/small empires. Some players respond well to positive feedback, some are motivated by tough talk, others... no one can really tell. We’re not going to get a forum were no one has their feelings hurt. When it comes to players going overboard with the tough talk, I think this community regulates itself relatively well.

I really believe this issue is about the tremendous lead G.R.O.S.S. and FotR have, not the attempts to motivate smaller empires with tough talk. Our big empire scores definitely intimidate any empire that has less than a tenth of our totals. But even I have been around long enough to know that this insurmountability is a fallacy. It wouldn’t be anything new if both G.R.O.S.S. and FotR were overrun in two months by one of the smaller empires. One thing that may be different about the tension right now is the talk of a permanent decline in participation. Some of us feel like there’s now a countdown hanging over us. Anyone who has this in the back of their mind may feel like there isn’t enough time for another changing of the guard.

(edit: de la poopsky! that wizard stole what little thunder i had!)
[Message Edited]

Hi,

I try ti intimidate the top groups... (any empire that is above my empire on the list) in varous ways..
I also try to encourage those that arn't above me...

Anything is possible in this game and in the metaverse

The Metaverse is an extention of the game.. ie: there are those who want to conqure all and there are those that just want to play the game..(just like the minors)

If any empire has asperations of dominating then they should do anything within their power that'll help them.. (besides cheeating). If ppl are intimidated by the msgs in the forum.. then they don't have to read them.. most of the msgs that can be intimidating are in the individualy headed msgs stating an empire name... this {to me} is a vital part of the game.. in which espionage and sabotage can be delved into.. as there is a limited number of frequent players. and most change empires as the mood suits them.. these msgs are primarily ment to entertain, and coerse members in other empires to change {culture flipp .. in the game} over to their empire just like in the game.

That being said there are heaps of msgs in the forum which are about specific things.. hints,tips,suggestions,problems

The Metavers is an untidy place with lots of friends / enemies , its up to the individual to work out who is who.. and to watch their backs

I'd love to see the top 3 get unseated from their semi secure positions... there is nothing like change to make the metaverse turn

Kitwarrior,
I wonder if there IS some method to encourage smaller empires. One of the issues I have with the metaverse at the moment is that it automatically shows you the biggest and the best by score. Perhaps users should be able to customise this. Have it show your empire compared against those around it (or other empires you choose to be compared against). Perhaps have it compare against other things besides total score?

It would be nice to find some method of encouraging small empires to form and partake in the metaverse.

paul.

~SDC~

Intimidated? What are we going to do, hunt them down and beat them up??

Look, we all have fun playing this game and chatting on the boards. I for one, recruit heavily. But I also try to encourage ppl to join the empire that they will have the most fun in. If you love Star Wars, join the Jedi Republic! They have a great Communication Thread and every one of them seems to have a genuinely good time with what they do. They aren't competeing for the top spot, but they are competing with their closest competitor. So is the Euros, Canadians, Dunces, and everybody else. I personally like trying to get into the Top 25. I am enjoying the Imperial race, as well, but I think the individual competition is just as good.

We aren't going to please everybody here. There has to be top empires, mediums, and minors. But I don't see any "intimidation" on the part of G.R.O.S.S. or the Fellowship. Just some friendly conversations (and the occasional recruitment!)

My suggestion is to highlight the fastest climbers and new teams on weekly or monthly basis. There could be a separate score for games of the last month only too. I'll post to that Metaverse thread and maybe the thought does not get lost so easily.


~SDC~

Theoden,
you don't have to



to intimidate them. The important question is 'Why are many players NOT taking part in the metaverse?'. This is IMPORTANT as it affects how much support Stardock will give the Metaverse. It has been suggested that the heavy rivalry between top empires is intimitating players who see this as all the metaverse is about. Is this ture? If it is then it is bad and we need to think of how do we change it?

There is nothing wrong with rivalry for top places. I think it's very funny watching the constant banter. The top empires deserve their places. They've earned them and someday other empires may displace them. No arguements here.

What do we do however to increase the number of players who submit to the metaverse, and make this a larger community? What I think we need is more encouragement and support for those 3 buddies who want to form their local empire and have fun competing with other local empires. Less focus on the big boys and more on people who are similar to the individual player. If you log onto the metaverse you should see scores you think you might compete against, or empires you might be able to displace some time in the near future. Customisable filters to ALWAYS show empires from a particular locality, or of a particular size, or only games played at a certain difficulty level. I think this might make the metaverse more enjoyable for players and get more people onboard.

I would also like to see some separation between the main forum and the metaverse forum. Many people disagree for very good reasons, but I find it off putting the huge number of major empire specific threads. Sometimes makes you forget that this game is about fun not coming first. Almost every second thread degenerates into a join 'x' empire. If only these rivalries could be moved to a rivalry section so that those people who DON'T want it so in their face can avoid it. Choice, that's what it's all about. Not just choice to choose, but choice not to have the options shoved in your face.

Something IS wrong. What and how we can fix it need to be considered and discussed.

Paul.



~SDC~

Like having different levels of empires? Say having a level one group which would include empires with 40 members or more and a level two group with 20-40 members and maybe a level three group with 1-20 members? I like the concept, but I'm afraid fragmenting the Metaverse might not be a good thing, either.

I think the real problem is people joining and then seeing 3 or 4 empires which they think will never be overtaken. What's the point, they may say.

Maybe there is too much emphasis on being the number one empire. As a member of one of the top empires, I may not understand what ppl in smaller empires feel.

Man, this is making my head hurt.

I agree that fragmenting would be bad. No need to fragment though if users could just fragment themselves. It you're a member of a 4 person empire, you probably don't want to see the big players. A was to customise the metaverse so you only see empires with 3-8 members would be good. You can always check out the top ranks if you're interested.

Paul.

~SDC~

Okay, I like this idea. And I think I know how we can do it without having to completely revamp the Metaverse.

Theoden's Plan for Fixing the Metaverse:

Any empire which consists of a smaller number of players and who wishes to compete with similar empires on a more level playing field can rename their empire to something like M2-{empire name}. M2 stands for Metaverse 2, by the way. For example, something like M2-Kingdom of Aldar, M2-Borg, M2-Earth Union. If enough of the empires did this, you would be able to do a search on the Empires page for "M2-" and all the empires come up, in order of rank. This way, the empires only see the ones they compete with!

What does everyone think of this idea?
[Message Edited]

Just want to test something:

http://www.galciv.com/metaverse/empires.asp?searchtext=The&Sort=Rank&order=ASC&submit2=GO

Okay, that's the ticket! If we had a message stickied which had a link like the one above, it would be easy to do this. As you can see, the search above for any empires with "The" in them pulled quite a few that had "The" not as the first word, so whatever the renaming method is decided to be needs to be something very unique. Like "M2~" or "M2#"

Seriously, what does everyone think of this?
[Message Edited]

I didn't think about this until just now, but this would also have the effect of weeding out viewing the empires that no longer participate, since they wouldn't change their empire name. Therefore, only empires currently playing would be shown.

Now that is a very interesting point!

Now you're on to something, Solitair! Unfortunately I disagree with all of your suggestions except for this one about adjusting the filters. But at least we agree on the big picture!

Theoden, good work! You've spotted something that could help without any additional programming. This is the kind of stuff we need.

I know SD doesn't have the funds or the time to commit to revamping the whole website, so I figured I'd try to solve it without having to bother them!

Of course, this whole idea will only fly if enough willing Emperors will change their Empire's name. :notsure:

Time for me to ramble a bit, so apologies ahead of time. First, some background as I get to the point. I joined my empire before it was a top 10 power. Back then, some folks looked at #1 and said, "Wow, 25,000 points. Nobody else is going to catch up to that." A while later, we climbed toward the middle of the top 10 pack when the Euros and Apolyton reigned supreme. Once again, there was some doubts because they were still active empires who outnumbered us 3 to 1 in players and the 50,000+ points each had seemed out of reach. We earned our spot. Were we intimidated when outnumbered and outscored by a massive amount? As a group, we obviously were not. So I know what it is to be one of the underdogs as well as being part of a current superpower.

Everyone knows I am one of the biggest boosters of empiring on the board. I help the little guys all the time and advocate joining empires in general. I do not go around waving a banner that says "join my empire" except in our own thread. So I have a record of being pretty fair but for also being a realist/pessimist. (Which one depends on my mood.)

When I hear a complaint from one of the other folks who happen to be a little behind in the points that the big guys own the game, I get a little annoyed. In my book, if you play and lose, you feel good that you gave it your best shot and leave the negative baggage on the field. You play and win, you feel good that you earned it.

I tend to be against the new ideas about self-esteem and philosophy of nobody loses. Self-esteem is just that: earned from self, not from others. So while I want to help people in Galciv where and how I can, I am not going to hand them the keys to my spot (or my empire's spot) on the Meta just to spare some feelings. What I will do is employ several methods to boost participation. Sometimes these are kind, soft-spoken approaches, other times some slightly barbed comments to spur people on (but not intended to belittle them), and for real hard cases of whiners/ malicious troublemakers, heavier artillery.

So I do want to get more people in the door, so to speak, but I do not agree with trying to rewrite the whole concept of the Meta just to make some intimidated folks feel good. There, thank you for your time and end of ramble.

Yup!

It would seem that the liberal/socialist element in the metaverse wants to create a perfect world where every one 'feels good'. It just doesn't, nor will it ever, work that way, in life or the metaverse.

I seem to recall an effort to remove scores from children's soccer leagues, so that no team was a 'loser'. [sarcasm]What a fantastic idea![/sarcasm]

Sorry for the OT jaunt to the right.

idle
~SDC~
[Message Edited]

But of course!!! You know you have that trace program.


In regards to intimidating small empires. We're pirates!!! We're supposed to do that...

don't feel intimidated by anyone at all. however (though am new, so context) do feel that the current setup tends to support inactivity rather than activity. posted an idea on taboo thread which i've grown fond of after a bottle of wine which is to:

limit number of players per empire (making membership a premium and cutting out deadwood)
make empires invite only (placing courting/recruiting on people who want to join)
build an empire map based on GavCiv entities through empire alignment (ie map has Drengin empire, Yor empire etc)
dunno what the alignment would be for Terrans though

i'm off to hunter/gather.

Agree with Gerakken.

I too try to encourage smaller empires by sharing some experiences and occassionally recommending unaligned players to consider those empires.

I personally would not feel good reaching the top of an alternate board which may not be well supported. Let's keep everyone in but give them some encouragement instead.

I just have something against me having to say hey sorry pal, you're not good enough, here's my boot. Wham!!!!

"I just have something against me having to say hey sorry pal, you're not good enough, here's my boot. Wham!!!!"

sorry quote failure. Pontius, isn't this precisely what competition is all about? (and what ANZAC has to deal with EVERY day) I'm not a blue meanie, but if membership is more precious, won't people engage more, make more of an investment? it may not be necessary to be a bastardos if the rules are there - i have to play 3 games a month and write a story to stay in the Senate. if i don't, well that's my fault isn't it? i can negotiate my stay if active, but if i've wandered off, there's a mechanism in place to dump me.

What you are trying to say is that membership would be a privilege and not a right. The empire would have clearly enunciated rules for continuance of membership. One of those rules would relate to continuing commitment. There would a clear appeal process for the emperor's rulings, say, to a Tribunal, where the rules of evidence may be adhered to. Alternatively, the Tribunal might be inquisatorial and need to act in a manner which was fair, quick, economical and just. Obviously there would be no recourse to the Federal Court because Galciv isn't that important to the grand scheme of things, and anyway, you'd need legislation for that.

Is that sorta what you were trying to say?