The Resources are in:

from Stardock Forums
http://draginol.stardock.com/images/galciv-oct02a.jpg

There will be 5 types of resources in the game and the number of them total will depend on the size of the galaxy. We're currently thinking of it being 5 + Number of sectors in galaxy / 10. So in a 12x12 galaxy you'd have 14 + 5 = 19 of these things around.

How do they work?

Build a star base on them, and then you can add modules to mine them. Mining them will give your overall civilization bonuses in these 5 areas:

1) Economy/Manufacturing
2) Military
3) Research
4) Influence
5) Morale

We are currently debating on the overall philosophy of modules for star bases. There are 2 schools of thought on this:

Viewpoint #1: A well designed strategy game has a very finite number of choices for the user. Hence, a star base should have only 3 or so upgrades to it in a given category. This is the strategy Blizzard takes on its games. YOu can't keep upgrading your units forever.

Viewpoint #2: Allow players to upgrade as far as they want. Have lots of modules that let the player keep upgrading. Constructors are very expensive so why limit them? If someone has the ability to add 8 upgrades to their mining capability where the resource is giving them a 100% bonus to their morale ability then more power to them. To use the WC3 analogy, I would have let you keep upgrading your blacksmith shop forever or at least several times more so that if you could have the strategy of only being able to afford 1 or 2 knights but they could kick the butts of an amry of th eother guy's normal stuff.

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.
529 views 26 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm greedy. Give me all I can build. :)
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
And a question: If another race has a resource you want what are the possible methods of getting it from them?
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
You can't. They're not tradeable. They give your civilization an ability bonus.

Now maybe in a galciv 2 we might have resources that are required to build certain things but that's down the line (not in 1.x).
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I think there should be a limit but 3 seems a little low
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
My instinct is to go nuts and fill out every base with everything. If I was limited or, having started a direction (or two) had to keep going that way, I could relax and focus on specific goals. :)

Actually, that's an idea--something in between: limited in direction (pick major and minor goals) but not degree (update the major whenever, update the minor only every once in a while or something). So, if you pick economic and military you can't build a base out for cultural influence or production. Not sure about how to handle defenses. Maybe the same as planets--docked ships.

-Robert
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
I usually prefer something I can continue working on forever, so I'm in favor of infinite (or at least, a very large number of) upgrades. For balance, maybe you can give them diminishing returns until you reach a lower limit on how little you get per upgrade? Then the large number of possible upgrades won't upset game balance too much, while at the same time giving the player something to work on when they're not at war with anybody.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Hmm,

Hard to say. In space there are no physical limitations to size/weight etc. I imagine in the distant future starbases will be added to module after module for ever and will become immense - especially if they are non orbitals. And as a result they will be diverse in their productivity/output. So I would go for expanding forever - it seems 'realistic'. Three limit seems 'gamey'.
In addition infinie expansion seems to offer some neat strategic benefits. Imagine how key it becomes in defending a 'super star city' that is the lynchpin to influence accross a couple of sectors (keeping minor races in your Federation for example) and also a resource powerhouse.
Additionally the temptation to pour resources into infinate expansion of starbases could be the end of some players if they don't act prudently!

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I apologise if this offends (after all I have not been party to the logic behind the graphics) but could the resources icons not look a little more realistic?

The lovely 3-d asteroids you can plunder with research vessels in the current beta are nice looking rotating objects with shading and depth, could these not be modified say with a small symbol on them representing the resource type??

Building a starbase on a large asteroid seems more realistic and in my view would look and feel better.
s
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
The design of this game really allows for the modules to be expanded indefinitely. The game design is such that more won't affect the game's balance. But if you wanted to put a limit, maybe 8-10.......but I wouldn't.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
My preference would be to allow infinite expandablity. The cost of the upgrades will be a limiting factor but the initial concept for the Starbase was that it would be an immense construct. Something built in space doesn't and shouldn't have the same limitations as something built on a planet where space is limited.

A well nutured Starbase with many modules in place would also become a strategic asset that would have to be protected.

They should have more than 100 hitpoints though :)
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
I vote for Viewpoint #2.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
I'd say infinite with bounds (other than raw cash).

That is, there is an initial limit, but there is a (or many) way(s) to incrase that limit.... Techs, building other modules, the amount of production in nearby sectors, ect.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm partial to the unlimited build myself. It's all comes down to a matter of resource management. If someone wants ot build a single super station.. then they should be able to. Hmm.. Death Star ring any bells? A LOT of resource were lost when it was destroyed..
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
Can it be made on option at the game config screen when starting a game?

(1) Technology limited starbase size
(2) Unlimited size starbase
(3) Fixed starbase size

Or combine 2 and 3 so you have fixed size with a slider from 3 to unlimited size.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
I like unlimited, but strategy games tend to balance better when there is some trade off. Maybe unlimited if it's a single function starbase (mining, cultural, economic), with a limit if it's multi-function (perhaps 6 levels in total).
This would add strategy. A very important mining station would need to be protected as it would not have the defense ability of a multi-purpose station.

paul.
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
I would suggest my preferred economic law, Law of diminishing returns.

Who does not have economic background, first upgrade would give you (lets say) 25% boost, second one 21% boost, third one 18% boost... You see the logic, I hope. This way no limit is necessary ;)
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
I would suggest upgrades for improving HP, or defence - I think it is 25% lower than I would like them to be ;)
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Solitair - I like your trade off idea.

Peter - the diminishing returns idea is good I think
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
Diminishing returns? Maybe after a few initial upgrades perhaps. Say the first upgrade was only able to mine so much of the resource at a certain max speed. The second would be more advanced technologically and larger in scale, thus would increase the area and/or the speed of mining. After a few upgrades the law of diminishing returns would set in. That is, the first upgrade would be low in efficiency and each upgrade would increase the efficiency until it reached a certain level of efficiency. Then the increases in efficiency would be limited by the fact that you can not exceed 100% efficiency.

To add to the fun of the game, perhaps each resource should be rated with its own maximum output per turn (I assume that the resource will be otherwise inexhaustable), a variable that is calculated at the start of the game for each resource. The first mining upgrade to the star base (I assume from Brad's initial post for this thread means that a star base without a mining upgrade gets zilch resources) mines a fixed amount per turn. The next upgrade gets a larger amount per turn, but not quite twice (think of technology improvements and scale improvements - larger mining equipement). This continues until the amount being mined per turn reaches a threashhold percent of the max output for the resource where the law of diminishing returns sets in. From that point output amount of each upgrade less than the previous upgrade. Once the mining rate reaches the maximum output rate, further upgrades would be worthless.
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
I think you should be able to keep adding, say limit it to 5 addons initially until you develop Large Scale Buildings research item or something then you can add as many as there are addons in the game

If you limit the approach so a starbase once you add an economic addon you can't add Military items you would need to be able to build mulitple starbases per sector.

How about being able to remove add-ons? i.e. i don't want a starbase there anymore i want to move it, so you break off the modules back into constructors again so they can go somewhere else.

I like the diminishing returns after the big jump variation Jack put forward
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
"How about being able to remove add-ons? i.e. i don't want a starbase there anymore i want to move it,"

Don't forget, eventually you will be able to move star bases.
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
I like the large scale building requirement. Maybe make one of the upgrades able to add more room and have it depend on large scale building.
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
Suppose that you can only get so much out of the localised system according to the law of diminishing returns.

So lets say you construct a freighter in another system and move it onto that particular starbase and a dialog comes up "dedicate these resources to this starbase?"

You could dedicate resources from another friendly system to that system and reduce the law of diminishing returns at that particular starbase. But not without risk, because the other empires could interdict your trade lines and stop the resources from entering the base.