Would You Talk to Your Spouse This Way?

from JoeUser Forums
In the quiet of the morning, after the kids had been shuffled off to school and I had dropped my husband off at work, I was treated to the acoustics of an argument of monumental proportions.

It was so quiet in my house. No TV, no radio, no dryer running, no kids chattering, or video games blaring. I could hear them as if I were in the room with them. I didn't just hear muffled shouting. I heard recognizable voices and specific phrases.

This couple fights a lot. The wife has joked that she gets a new wedding ring every year because she throws hers away when they fight. They yell. They yell at their children and they yell at each other. Honestly, they are vulgar people.

She's had 8 affairs...seven that he knows about. She is obsessed with keeping the house clean and staying thin and pays little attention to their 3 daughters. He takes care of the kids, but like her, he verbally abuses them.

A few months back he had to go to the mainland for training, and while he was away he made sure to even the score. He's told her that it was only a BJ, but I think she's the only one who actually believes it.

Maybe they love each other, maybe they don't. I don't know. But they plan to stay together and had a renewal of vows ceremony (ha, like the one I wanted to have but didn't) on their recent 10th anniversary.

They have a volatile relationship. Angry, selfish, passionate. But they've made it ten years.

This morning their voices filled my living room.

I heard him yelling, "It's the same fucking thing! Always the same fucking thing!" He said this at least five or six times with her interjecting profane screams of her own. Then he screamed at her...

"Shut your fucking mouth!"

I know their two year old was home with them. I know she had to have heard all this, and I'm sure it was scary for her.

Who behaves like this? How little respect must you have for spouse to tell him or her to "shut your fucking mouth"?

My husband and I don't fight very much. We don't fight about money or sex or any of the common stuff. Usually an argument is started when one of us says something off-handedly that offends the other person. Then there's a lot of "but YOU" and "YOU never" or "YOU always". Raised voices are a no-go. I don't like yelling. I won't be screamed at. I get pouty and tears run down my cheeks and then one of us apologizes and says, "I don't want to fight."

My husband has NEVER called me a bitch. We don't scream profanities or name call (except when we're playing). We could fight better. We could learn to resolve our conflicts in more constructive ways. But the day my husband tells me to "shut your fucking mouth" is the day I take my babies and get on a plane headed for Texas.

We all make mistakes or do careless things to hurt the people we love. But there should be some level of respect and a sense of care for the other person's feelings that keeps us from intentionally belittling them or willfully and directly abusing them just so that we can purge our negative feelings about them or their actions.

Perhaps they're "just words"...and maybe they have an understanding about treating each other that way. I just can't imagine it though. Not between two people who love each other.

Maybe I'm being too judgmental about this. I don't know.
4,829 views 20 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
No, Tex, you're right. Nobody who takes their vows seriously, or loves their spouse would behave that way. I admit I've called my wife a bitch, but only one, she's a witch every other time. We don't fight, haven't in more than two years. Poor children.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
voodoo:
No, Tex, you're right. Nobody who takes their vows seriously, or loves their spouse would behave that way.


Well, I understand that every couple has different ways of dealing with each other and what might seem odd to outsiders is perfectly fine to the couple, but I really can't see how this kind of thing would be constructive.

I have shown my husband disrespect before. With words and with actions. I'm not a high and mighty beacon of marital wisdom and maturity.

But this...it just strikes me as so hateful, so disrespectful, and so wrong, that I can't imagine how a couple could stay together if this kind of thing is the status quo. It's damaging to the marriage and it's damaging to them as individuals.

I admit I've called my wife a bitch, but only one, she's a witch every other time.


Some women don't mind it. It's just a line in my own marriage that we don't cross.

We don't fight, haven't in more than two years.


That's really good. I think maturity and humility, over time, in a marriage can lead us to a place where we don't feel the need to jump down each other's throats or make a big deal out of unimportant stuff.

Poor children.


No kidding. I just want to take those babies and love them and play with them and show them that they don't deserve to be treated that way. It's sad.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I dunno Tex.

I am a yeller, a screamer, a woman who gets loud when angry.

I don't think I've ever called, oh wait, yes I have. I called my husband an asshole a few times. But that's the extent of it.

We don't fight often, maybe five or six big blow ups in 19 years that lasted an hour or so, not yelling the entire time, just getting mad and getting over it.

I guess if I were married to someone I hated, and believe me if he cheated 7 times and I knew, I'd be hatin on him. It'd be so hard to control I'd have to leave.....and if for some reason I couldn't leave, I'd probably try to get even with verbal abuse.

It breaks my heart to hear the two year old listened. I heard my parents fight and watched them throw down physically often.

My husband's parents never have had an argument, not one. At least that what my MIL says and my husband backs it up. OF course my MIL makes all the concessions and my FIL takes them. Grr. Nuther story.

However, I do scream at my kids. Scream may be too strong a word. I raise my voice but its not the loudest I can get.

Sorry just got off on a tangent there.

It's a hard thing to judge. I'd just keep my stereo on or something when it started.

Nah, who am I kidding? I'd be listening with a cup at the wall....

JUST KIDDING!
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
coll and I have an agreement, shup is the buzz word not shut up. works for us. we try to treat eachother with respect at all times, even when we disagree we do it politely. she knows what A motherfucker I can turn into {no she ain't afraid} I know what a Itch she can be. we just do not let these creatures out to "play" with eaachother.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Tova:
I am a yeller, a screamer, a woman who gets loud when angry.


Right...and like I said, things that wouldn't fly in one marriage is normal in another. I can understand that. I don't like yelling, but that's a personal thing (and I won't get into why I don't like yelling, but I have solid reasons).

I don't think I've ever called, oh wait, yes I have. I called my husband an asshole a few times. But that's the extent of it.


:: Well, I've called my husband an asshole and he's called me one, but we play like that. (Usually it's "jerk" though). And I'm sure that will sound horrid to some people...we all relate differently, I suppose. He called me a whore one time. Once, and only once, and I deserved it. He apologized for it, and he feels bad about it, but I earned it.

We don't fight often, maybe five or six big blow ups in 19 years that lasted an hour or so, not yelling the entire time, just getting mad and getting over it.


Yeah, the word "fight" is hard to define because it means something different to different people. For some it means physical fighting, for others it's a screaming match, and for some it's what they call the bantering that takes place during a calm disagreement.

I don't think it's unhealthy to fight, necessarily. We have to work out disagreements somehow. I think we have to be careful not to say or do things that will scar one another or permanently damage the relationship. And that can be hard when we're angry. It's hard for me to control my tongue. As a teen, I said some of the most hateful, nastiest things to my mother. I've learned not to just lash out and hurt someone because they've hurt me, though. I try to be mindful of the fact that I can't take what I say back.

I guess if I were married to someone I hated, and believe me if he cheated 7 times and I knew, I'd be hatin on him. It'd be so hard to control I'd have to leave.....and if for some reason I couldn't leave, I'd probably try to get even with verbal abuse.


Hmmm...maybe that's it. But still...if that's the way he feels...should they be together?

However, I do scream at my kids. Scream may be too strong a word. I raise my voice but its not the loudest I can get.


Haha. I try not to yell at my kids. I do yell "BOYS!!!" a lot. Hehe. Gotta get their attention somehow.

Nah, who am I kidding? I'd be listening with a cup at the wall....


:: I try not to eavesdrop. Not that I'm not nosy, but I usually feel guilty about overhearing stuff that is meant to be private. This, though...geez...it was like I had front row tickets.

I guess for me, more than anything...I detest "shut up"...to me that is so disrespectful.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

I raise my voice.  So does he.  If we're alone, we cuss.  He's called me a bitch twice and I've called him an asshole a couple of times too.  But, never in front of the kids. 

Has this woman no self-respect at all?  Why are they still together if all they're going to do is screw around on each other???  Gawd, get a divorce and get it over with. 

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you can't respect your spouse, you don't deserve them. And if you don't respect yourself enough to demand respect, then you probably don't deserve to be respected. It sounds like your neighbors would be covered by my second statement here.

It's sad that there are so many couples out there similar to the one you are talking about Tex. Unfortunately that picture we see in the TV on crappy shows like Maury, Springer, and other similar crappy shows that seems so unbelievable aren't that far from the truth. Divorce court is probably the tamest of the bunch, and again seems unbelievable, but then you hear from others talking about neighbors that put those shows to shame.

It really is a shame your neighbors are subjecting their children to such antics, and they really ought to have more respect for their neighbors also. I'm sure it's probably not easy to move away from them, and complaining about them probably won't do much good either. Hopefully they'll get moved soon though, and perhaps things will get back to a more reasonable level for you.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Moderateman:
coll and I have an agreement, shup is the buzz word not shut up. works for us.


Yeah, shut up really rubs me the wrong way. I can't even really articulate why. We don't say it to the kids (ok, we say "shut your face hole" but it's not serious...it's what we all say when we're playing around), they aren't allowed to say it, and we don't say it to each other.

we try to treat eachother with respect at all times, even when we disagree we do it politely


It's obvious from your posts that you have great respect and admiration for your bride. It's really beautiful, elie.

she knows what A motherfucker I can turn into {no she ain't afraid} I know what a Itch she can be. we just do not let these creatures out to "play" with eaachother.


Haha. It's hard to restrain ourselves when it would feel more gratifying to just let the other person know how angry we are with them. I think pride is part of it...we want the last word...we want to sting them and make them hurt the way whatever perceived wrong of theirs hurt us. That's something I've been working on a lot. I don't want to say hurtful things that will always stick with my husband and make him doubt my love for him.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
dharma:
I raise my voice. So does he. If we're alone, we cuss. He's called me a bitch twice and I've called him an asshole a couple of times too. But, never in front of the kids.


Haha. I cuss. Under my breath. I understand that adults have different ways of dealing with each other, and I may be wrong for being so judgmental about this. It just disturbed me because it was so loud and just...ugh...hateful.

Our rule with the kids is if we can work through a disagreement in a peaceful, role model type way (and the topic is something that is ok for them to sit in on), then they can stay. If we're getting immature about it, we either put it on hold or go talk in another room. I think that kids can learn how to solve disagreements from their parents...but not if the parents are teaching them to throw things or verbally abuse each other.

Has this woman no self-respect at all? Why are they still together if all they're going to do is screw around on each other??? Gawd, get a divorce and get it over with.


I don't understand it either. They have 3 kids...she needs him. Him, though? I don't know why he stays. Perhaps they really, truly love each other...odd way of showing it.

terpfan:
It really is a shame your neighbors are subjecting their children to such antics, and they really ought to have more respect for their neighbors also.


I worry about those kids...I really do...the parents are just as nasty to the kids as they are to each other. I always hear them screaming at their kids...cussing them out...belittling them. Ugh.

Hopefully they'll get moved soon though, and perhaps things will get back to a more reasonable level for you.


They're about to move. The husband found out that he can't make rank without getting rid of his P3 Profile (which is what keeps him from deploying), so he decided to get Med-Boarded out. They're packing right now.

I'll miss those babies, though.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
#8 by Texas Wahine
Wednesday, February 01, 2006


Haha. It's hard to restrain ourselves when it would feel more gratifying to just let the other person know how angry we are with them. I think pride is part of it...we want the last word...we want to sting them and make them hurt the way whatever perceived wrong of theirs hurt us. That's something I've been working on a lot. I don't want to say hurtful things that will always stick with my husband and make him doubt my love for him.


this just did not "happen" tex took some knock down brawls {figuratively} for us to decide we did not wanat to cut on each other, so we found another way, RESPECT is the only way to go. Now a question for you my sweet friend, is it worth winning a fight by destroying someone you claim to love?" that was the question asked of me btw by my sponser.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't remember my parents ever fighting in front of us kids...I know that they did...I heard my dad reference the two-week silent treatment on more than one occasion.

For right now, Ryan and I can raise our voices and such, but I don't think it's appropriate to be screaming and swearing in front of little ones.

I'm bad at fighting. I hope that's something we can work on in premarital counseling coming up here. I tend not to tell him what's wrong, because I think it's stupid that I'm mad, when he'd rather I just told him and got it over with. Last weekend he came home and I was upset about something and we both ended up crying over it. I guess that showed me he really is serious about this whole thing...even after all this time I still have doubts.

Ryan's good at getting me to talk though. I think "jerk" and "butthead" are the names that get thrown around the most. And it really is stupid to be calling each other that.

Ryan tends to use lots of sarcasm instead of telling me what he really wishes for me to get done or whatever. I just wish he'd say "Marce, can you do a load or two of dishes or something? I'll take care of the pots and pans, you do the plates and silverware and such?" I'm horrible at house crap, but I'm good at assignments. I suppose that will come in time. And as time goes on our fighting will become more "refined" too, I suppose. To expect no fights is silly, but I think it's important for each couple to know how they want to fight and to come to the table with a spirit of compromise.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Moderateman:
Now a question for you my sweet friend, is it worth winning a fight by destroying someone you claim to love?"


Of course not. So many things that feel like big issues at the time seem so insignificant in retrospect.

I remember a couple of months ago I got really upset with Adrian because I went to get in the car and there was stuff in my seat. Beret, paperwork, cell phone, all kinds of junk. He gives people rides from time to time and I know he clears the stuff out so they can sit down. I felt like it was disrespectful and uncaring that he never bothered to move the stuff out of my seat. I was upset and cried about it. It clouded the entire day.

It was silly. I felt so hurt, but it wasn't worth us both feeling bad about. I overreacted...and usually that's at the core of arguments: overreaction.

Those spiteful things that we can say...that we know will hurt...they can't be taken back. Our partners will always remember them and it will make them doubt our love and doubt themselves as well. It's not worth it just to feel like we've "won".
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm a really mellow person and I'm certainly non-confrontational. In some respects I'm also hypersensitive. It is a by-product of my childhood but I'm unwilling to let it go as it is also the part of me that provides my creative energy. I'm lucky as T knows this and is respectful of this trait. I love her so much for allowing me this leeway.

The thing is that at times, I would prefer if she didn't let things slide because she is a brooder. I would rather we sit down and talk about whatever I'm doing that bothers her at the time it happens rather than keep it to herself. I don't think this is necessarily healthy for her. I'm very mindful of this these days. I try to keep a quote by Seneca in mind: " It is often better not to see an insult than to attempt to avenge it". Mostly, our 'discussions' are misunderstandings to begin with so often times they straighten out as soon as we talk about them.

We tend to address each other by our names if we're angry at each other. Most of the time, we call each other by pet names such as 'honey' or 'babe' etc.

Good blog, Tex. It made me appreciate my lovely wife even more. Thanks
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
MY sponser was at the house in the midle of this brawl coll and I were having, My sponser said to me "you are going to learn to fight fair" I responded like the petulant child I was, "I do not fight fair, I fight to win" this day was the turning point in colls and mine relationship. I learned to fight fair, she learned to give me air when I asked for it.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

Well sometimes my wife will anger me by looking at me funny or giving an opinion or because it's Tuesday and I'll have to beat her back into shape with a "Woman, get our pregnant ass out of bed and make me a sandwich!"

But that's just how I show love.

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

My wife and I fight on occassion, and I do get loud.  But I do not call her a bitch or asshole or anyother name.  After I blow up, I go off to cool down.  I dont do it much, but everyonce in awhile.

And I would never considered calling her a nasty name.  If I did that, I know I have already lost and that I have no case.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I can totally relate to this. We live in a condo with another unit underneath us. Yes, UNDER us we can hear every little thing going on because our neighbors are so unacceptably loud and disrespectful people. They fight constantly and have no shame so do not care who hears. They are oblivious to the fact that there are 6 units in the building and that they only own 1/6 of it. Those are people's homes and it is unacceptable to me that we have to endure listening to their vulgar and frequent scream-offs. They say the f word in every sentance and scream bloody murder so we can hear every sentence. This happens a few times a month. The first time was when they first moved in, unmarried, and were arguing and screaming over him accusing her of having an affair. They were so foul mouthed an disrespctful to each other, you can imagine my surprise when the next weekend they got married!!! How can two people who can't get along for more than 3 nights in a row and don't trust each other go through with a wedding!! They haven't even been married a year yet and they still argue just as much. We even had to call the police the other weekend because he was either breaking her stuff and throwing stuff against teh wall, or beating her. Since then it hasn't been as bad, but my god! You'll stay with someone causing you this much unhappiness??? For both sides.

This is one of the major reasons we have our condo up for sale right now. I feel desperate to get away from such awful people and selfish neighbors. It is so depressing to see how some married couples live. I would never imagine talking to my husband in that way, and if he did to me you can bet I would be out the door in a matter of minutes never to come back. What's even worse is that just about every weekend they have their family over and pretend to be such a happy and loving couple, laughing as if nothing is wrong with their relationship! I really hope they don't consider this a healthy and normal marriage!

Getting back to your neighrbors; that is disgusting that they talk that way around their children. Ugh. That's another thing about mine; how do they know we don't have children or even any company for that matter over? Our guests shouldn't have to listen to their profanity. Sorry about the rant! I get very heated about this subject, having to endure the same thing myself!
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
My wife and I fight on occasion. It's more of a loud verbal disagreement on how the children should be disciplined and is not done in front of the kids. My wife (rightly) calls me an asshole (see *points at card in hand* I 'm a card carrying member of UAA (United Assholes of America)) and she (rightly at times) refers to herself as a bitch. More due to behavior at the time than anything else. I don't think I've called her that myself, though. I've thought it a number of times, but I don't think I've actually voiced it.

The entire argument your neighbours had was woefully inappropriate to have in front of children. The sad part is, if they don't have the self-respect to avoid this, they won't have enough respect for the kids and neighbours to avoid the extra audience.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
My husband and I have disagreements sometimes. There are times when we argue because of the disagreements. Disagreements are when we don't see each other's point of view and it becomes a loud (not quarrelsome) discussion. It will escalate into an agruement if it's about money or discipline where the kids are concerned. I make it a point to wait til the kids leave or we're in our rooms to argue heatedly.

My husband has gotten mad, really mad before and he will curse, he's never called me a bitch though. He's accused me of acting like one. I've accused him of being a male pig or acting like a jerk. We both have used the F word before while arguing, to make a point, there are times when punctuating a sentence with the F word makes it seem so much more telling and hurtful when you're arguing and that's the honest truth. We've never told each other to 'shut the fuck up" though, that's just darn disrespectful.

We don't argue like we used to in the past or as much as we used to and I'm happy about that. We will have disagreements like I said before, sometimes heated, but only because we're each trying to get our points across. And we don't swear at each other. We're both strong-willed and passionate so we'll do that from time to time.

I feel for their children and obviously those parents are too selfish to see what they are doing to them.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I can honestly say this much: in 11 years of marriage, my wife and I have NEVER resorted to name calling in any argument. I don't think it's appropriate.

But some folks see things differently, I guess...(shrug)