4x World - 1x Content? » Forum Post by cvgordy

Explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate. I'm not sure what you're referring to with "limited content", but this game seems to deliver on 4x in spades. Just my opinion mind you.

Cheers~

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I believe what he's saying is, the research and diplomacy elements aren't anywhere near as deep as in, say, Space Empires V. There is also less variety of planet types, artifacts, random events, etc. But you have to remember that this is a hybrid game, blending many elements of RTS with the large universe commonly found in turn-based 4x games. To actually create a full-fledged 4x game with all the really good RTS elements found here would be a monumental undertaking. Cut the devs some slack, they made a great game with the resources they had. Enjoy it for what it is.

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Reading through some of the devs' comments, it seems they have some big things planned for coming expansions and even in their patches. Be patient. The game will get bigger and better with time.

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I can't believe how every single forum, for every single game has somebody making threads like this.

It's actually getting to the point where I'm getting angry.

How the hell do developers put up with this?

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The OP does have a point, sort of. Sins is a rather simple game at its core. However, simplicity is not necessarily a bad thing. And right now, the game needs scaling options more than depth - research cost option (cheap, normal, expensive), victory conditions, accelerated start, that kind of stuff.

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@Dairuka: The guy has a point and I think it highly unlikely that the devs are going to break down in tears after reading his post...

I couldn't agree more with MikeyC, this has the makings of a great game, good interface, good scope etc.

But, where are the space stations? Where are the moons, nebulas, ion storms, solar flares etc. Where is the diplomacy? Where is the espionage? There's numerous more which I've listed in my thread on the subject.

All I'll say is, nice start StarDock, looking forward to v1.5

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But, where are the space stations? Where are the moons, nebulas, ion storms, solar flares etc. Where is the diplomacy? Where is the espionage? There's numerous more which I've listed in my thread on the subject.

Expansion material! We've gotta put this to the devs again and again and again, I think.

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I'm pretty sure that Ironclad knows how much we love the game. They've certainly gotten plenty of positive press. Now is the time to point out what it lacks. They have the solid base to build upon with patches and expansions. We just have to give them ideas of what we would like. More unknown random space events/bonuses. Searching space and finding something that gives your race a bonus in some way? Score.

Nothing wrong with helping them build a better game.

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There are already mods that add a bunch of new planet types, a ton of new planetary bonuses, aswell as a host of mods in the works with new models, units, research trees and gameplay changes. Ive been trying them out the past few days, and for beta mods they are a good start.

And this is what, a month after release? Im confident in the modding community.. and who knows, maybe stardock will suprise us.

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Explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate. I'm not sure what you're referring to with "limited content", but this game seems to deliver on 4x in spades. Just my opinion mind you.Cheers~

Not really...

I still love this game though, but this game is really not as in depth as your normal 4x game.

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I still love this game though, but this game is really not as in depth as your normal 4x game.

Of course it's not, because this isn't your normal 4x game. It has less depth than a traditional 4x title, but more depth than a traditional RTS.

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The amount of content must be balanced. This is a Real Time game mind you. You can't toss in endless content because it would be very difficult to manage. I'm sure as time progresses, more things will be introduced. I think stuff like different planet types may be added, but not too many types. Why would you want a game with more planet types than will appear on small map?

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+367

We will be adding more in updates and in a future expansion pack. There is only so much depth you can add without the RTS aspect becoming a micro-management hell. Sins will never be as deep as a turn-based strategy game - it's just not possible without ruining the gameplay.

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What you all must keep in mind, is aslong as they provide us with the tools to make as much depth as we want, that's all that's needed. They may put a cap on how much content to add, but aslong as they give us the option to go above and beyond that limit, the game is fine.

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How the hell do developers put up with this?

Most do by not reading any related forums

Takes a very special developer to do otherwise, I know. I'm not one of them!

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If you add too much it starts to take away the RTS aspect of the game making it to complicated to play at a good pace.

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Astax and Yarlen are very right: since this is real-time it has to be manageable. If you put in too much content, you get an unmanageable mess that is no fun. Right now this game has very good balance and flow. Adding some more here and there might not be too bad, but please don't turn this into Master of Orion 3.

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What you all must keep in mind, is aslong as they provide us with the tools to make as much depth as we want, that's all that's needed.

Modding is all well and good, but unfortunately it's very difficult to get a smallish MP community like in Sins to adopt a mod. (I have a plenty of experience of this can of worms with the Total War games...) Very often the "vanilla" version of a game defines its multiplayer. That's why the core game needs to have sufficient depth, balance and options.

Speaking of options, there can really never be too many of them. Sins could definitely use some more scalability; a good example to look at would be Rise of Nations and its wealth of game options.

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It's really just an RTS, and it plays like it. That means you explore, exterminate, and expand (so its 3X) but then that's what you do in every RTS on the market. The other one is exploit, of course, which you can do in any game with a diplo system. Considering how terrible diplomacy is in this game, I always play with that off, so we're left with exactly the same 3X gameplay you'd find in any RTS on the shelf.

I bought into the 4X line myself, expecting something with considerably more depth, but what's here isn't bad. It's just a lot more run-of-the-mill than its advertised (or reviewed) to be, so there's a slowly building crowd of folks who are disappointed that it's only a neat little space RTS (basically Supreme Commander in space cross pollinated with Homeworld and Rise of Nations) and not something with more strategic depth.

I was hoping for something more like an Europa Universalis 2, which is real time but paced slowly enough that it has all the strategic gameplay you'd find in a TBS game. This game owes a lot more to Starcraft, Total Annihilation, and RoN than it does to Gal Civ 2 or EU2. If I'd known that going in I wouldn't have bought it.

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but please don't turn this into Master of Orion 3.

*Shudders in terror and disgust*

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We will be adding more in updates and in a future expansion pack. There is only so much depth you can add without the RTS aspect becoming a micro-management hell. Sins will never be as deep as a turn-based strategy game - it's just not possible without ruining the gameplay.

I don't know if you guys have considered it, but maybe you could look at some of the mods that are available here, and see if they're things you could incorporate into the updates? Uzii's Sins Plus mod, for example, I can't see a downside to adding all his new planet types to the game, and I'm sure a lot of his new planet bonuses would add some great variety too, and I'm sure he'd be thrilled to have your guys polish up the textures and coding, so he doesn't have to deal with the problems he's had incorporating the research to settle the new planets. It would be awesome to see not only updates expanding content, but expanding content using content provided by the players.

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Definately agree with Vinraith, EU2 is an awesome game and has many features missing from Sins - not least the ability to speed up the game by hitting '+'.

The problem at the moment is that I could quite happily play UT3 and (offline) Sins on two machines at the same time.....

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Definately agree with Vinraith, EU2 is an awesome game and has many features missing from Sins - not least the ability to speed up the game by hitting '+'.

uh, have you tried hitting '+'? >.>

1x, 2x, 4x, 8x speed options

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I was hoping for something more like an Europa Universalis 2, which is real time but paced slowly enough that it has all the strategic gameplay you'd find in a TBS game. This game owes a lot more to Starcraft, Total Annihilation, and RoN than it does to Gal Civ 2 or EU2. If I'd known that going in I wouldn't have bought it.

Modded the game can be slow-paced. My opinion on this game is that it could easily become an empire building game with the right settings. I've modded the speed of the game quite a bit so far: I've slowed unit top speed by two-thirds and acceleration by one third, significantly increased production time and development, slowed inter-planetary jumping by 75% and slowed inter-star jumping by 50%. I also disable the wormhole jumping to make sure fleets spend a significant amount of time traveling between systems. I've also made a custom 4 player galaxy with about 30 stars and about 60 planets (actual planets).

These are just the changes I've made to slow the game down (I made a lot of changes to the unit trees as well). The result is that it plays much more like a strategy game than a typical rts.

I've also added the extra UZI planets and exaggerated the benefits and drawbacks of each planet type so some systems might have a very high economical value, while others are suited to industry etc.

The developers could have made the game more of a strategy game if they had wanted to as it was as easy as adding several slower settings than "slow".

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Zaro2, reading your post, that is what I would like to be done with the game, but I have NO IDEA really even as to how to get that done.

Was wondering....would it be possible to get those files that you changed from you?

Just wondering....

Chris

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