I also concur with his opinion. Due to emergence of strikecrafts, the effectiveness of subverters has been dramatically reduced.

I'd even suggest back to 1.05 stat (100 antimatter and 30 sec) since post-patch's battlefields would be like 50% strikecraft, 30% long range and 20% HCs, which means the effectiveness of subverters has been reduced to 50% or even less.

subverters disable anything and stop all its functions including those of extractors. I completely agree with this the subverter is to far gone to be useful. I have started using overseers to replace my subverters cause there is simple no point in making them anymore.

I agree to nerfing the subverter, and about the ai being idiotic? Any single player game i play, the ai manages to lock down my entire army and i will get wiped out even when odds are in my favor, but as to being too much......yeah im basicaly repeating the others...lol

Oh, here's a link to the forum about how one guy complained so much about the subverter he modded it out of the game.

WWW Link

Obviously, I agree with Annatar's and Raging's posts in that thread (post 2 & 3).

Kitkun, I think you missed the point of my thread. I am arguing that the nerf is too much in v1.09 and that I would rather have it be closer to that of v1.05.

Just want to start off by saying that I am not participating in the 1.09 beta. I know this is a thread that is talking about 1.09 and even though I have not seen the changes and experienced them first hand, my time playing 1.05 gives me some credibility (at least I hope. ^.^)

I want to say that I agree with those who think the Subverter was nerfed too much. From what I've read around the forums and my experiences using subverters and fighting against them, I can only say that I am disappointed that it's abilities have been reduced so much.

I have played several matches where my fleet goes up against an enemy Vasari fleet late game with Subverters. As the fleet enters my planet's grav well I look over the incoming fleet and find the Subverters, ordering my fleet to systimatically joint fire on each of them. Even in these battles most of my fleet is disabled by the Subverters, but taking the initiative against the fleet I have destroyed several of them. I then use my Capital ships and strike craft, that are immune, to destroy the remaining Subverters. Wa la! My fleet is freed from the Subverter's clutches with very few losses and is free to wipe out the remaining enemy forces. All it took was some planning as the fleets closed in on each other.

This game requires some thought. Even if it isn't as tactical as Supreme Commander, it still demands that the player look at the enemy fleet and identify the biggest threat. In my personal opinion I thought they (the subverter's) are fine just as they are, but I do understand some player's opinions that they need to be slightly decreased in strength. My annoyance is directed at the players who don't try to figure out ways to combat an enemy fleet's strengths and want the Subverter's nerfed. Strategy games are moving past the whole, build many units kill enemy army, idea and more in to the tactical and strategic aspects of military control. I have seen way to many units, classes, and other aspects of games nerfed because of people who are on the recieving end and do nothing about it complain. Again I am not angry at everyone who is for the Subverter's reduction in strength, just those that won't figure out there own counter's.

I am more worried about the increase in strike craft that the carriers can hold than I am anything else.

The Subverter has been nerfed a little less harshly than the originally posted patch notes detailed; the antimatter cost for Distortion Field has been changed to 150.

*applauds* *crowds cheer in background* *Babies cry for joy* *and a tree falls in the forest...does it make a sound?*


Yes! A win for tactical gamers!

150 sounds good, cause last time I played against a Vasari hard AI, he built 30 subverters on one of his fleet, and it was a pretty damn huge pain in the ass to destroy that fleet.