My Impression of Ashes currently.

By on December 17, 2015 11:45:31 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Gr_Ad_Kinz

Join Date 07/2012
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Initial Impression: I bought Ashes when it first came out on Steam under early access and have played it since then a good deal. There are some things I do like and some things that I don't like. Now, I have played a wide array of strategy games over the years so I will base my impression upon those games.

I know there are two factions planned currently, which I don't necessarily believe to be a good fit in a strategy game. I think for any strategy game a good strong number is 3 factions starting out in a vanilla game; it provides a good starting base and a lot of variety in strategy and replayability. Starcraft, Warcraft, Supcom, Sins, etc..all have at least three starting races. So, I do hope for a third faction to be added into the game after release, and not two years after it's release. A games initial release really sets the tone for its success in the future, it doesn't matter if you release great DLC down the line - because you have already missed the crowd. That being said, I am enjoying the current faction and am looking forward to the second one being added in next month in beta.

I've read the forums and am aware that the Devs are aware that the current state of the game lacks variety ( it's all who can pump out the most units). I am not sure how I feel about the "lanes" connecting nodes. It really feels like you are putting a player in a box and removing that sandbox feel. Possibly removing the lanes would help ease it up somewhat, and maybe not have as many nodes - but, make the nodes more important in resource income. If you plan on adding in larger maps, which I hope you add in Massive maps, having so many nodes on the map is just going to make it feel clustered. Having fewer nodes, but making them more important would help to make it more manageable.

The latest patch separated the cruiser/frigate building into two - which is great and I like that much better. Makes me put a little more thought into what I want to build earlier on. I feel that there needs to be more buildings introduced, definitely more defensive/offensive buildings. Allowing players to fortify positions to free up units to attack other positions on the map would be a plus. It is not turtling, it is defense. The way the current economy system is basically means that any player that turtles will lose, because he'll get killed economically - so, I don't see any validation in an argument against allowing player's to have more defense shield type buildings and artillery type offensive buildings...defenses seem very weak currently as well.

Unit Variety:
   Its good to hear that you have extra units planned, and I encourage that. There is currently a severe lack of unit variety, I honestly don't see the difference between having archers and brutes. I just mash a queue up for them and don't even care - because I feel it is all about numbers. Maybe once the game actually get's larger maps and I am dealing with multiple fronts it will be better, but in the current game the lack of strategy involved with units is severely hampering. The dreadnaughts can be fun, but they do not offer that "Wow" factor that units that they are suppose to represent provide in other games. Maybe offering in an actual ''Experimental" or T4 unit would help introduce that wow factor in this game - a unit that a player would have to invest a lot of resources in that he would use to break a powerful enemy force.

I am not saying to copy Supreme Commander or Sins or whatever, but I do encourage looking at those games and seeing what really draws players to them..I was playing FA yesterday and thought to myself, " This game offers so much more currently than Ashes." - Then again, Ashes is in Alpha, but I did play Supcom when it first came out and it's basic vanilla game will still offer more than Ashes will when it launches unless the Unit roster is flushed out even more. 

Resource Accumulation: The way we gather resources to me is very similar to other games I've played, such as COH or Dawn of War - both which I think suit those games perfectly, but in a large strategy game that is suppose to represent massive battles..I think it doesn't necessarily fit. I mentioned in part in some of my first paragraphs - but, I am still on the fence how I feel about it. I don't mind taking nodes necessarily, but the lane feature bothers me. I believe player's should create their own objectives in a strategy game and have the ultimate amount of freedom in how a game is played out. The more options - the more replayability. Having lanes connecting points of interest works great in a game like Sins ( MAY THERE BE A SECOND ONE MADE, PLEASE), but for a ground war game it doesn't fit so well for me. I can learn to live with it though.

I do like the additional building we can place on top of resource nodes to increase resource intake, maybe it would be a good idea to give this 2 or 3 levels of "upgrades" to even further increase it's resource intake? 

Unit upgrades: Now here..I have to be completely honest. I absolutely hate the infinite upgrade system on units. I feel that it is a cop-out, a way to make players feel that they are still "doing" something because there really isn't much to do in the game - with the introduction of the quanta abilities though that has and will change even more. It would be more beneficial for there to be maybe..5 tiers of upgrades for units health/weapons, but to make it extremely expensive. So expensive that it would take a while and a lot of quanta to get to level 5 tech, but would have huge improvements upon units instead of these infinite "increments". Because I can already tell you that players will just Spam tech labs to get quanta points - they will just build infinite amounts of them through out the game. So, by the end of the game you will have tons of these structures everywhere, which to me is game breaking. It's better to say Limit the amount of those that a player can build, maybe a max of 7-10 ( which they can be upgraded to increase the production of). That way a player really has to weigh his decisions when he is spending quanta because everybody will receive the same amount if they have the same amount of buildings.

"Do, I spend quanta on this incursion force or on a tier 2 upgrade for my units? But..If my incursion fails then he will get his tier 2 instead" You see, instead of giving players infinite upgrades, just make the upgrades more substantial and the quanta as well. 

Final Thoughts: I see a great deal of potential for Ashes, especially with the amazing engine that you all have created and continue to improve upon and the massive maps to follow (I hope). I believe once the game is more flushed out, this game will become a foundation for several expansion to follow and will make an amazing game legacy.





 

 

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deathcoy
tatsujb
December 17, 2015 1:30:38 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

I like your thoughts on unit upgrades and believe it could add to the game in the way you explain. If you have 10 levels per upgrade that is still a fair amount and also allows them to be named which add to the feeling of the game. Limiting quanta so you have to make much tougher decisions instead of having so many quanta relays everywhere that you don't have to think so much about what you are going to spend it on (which can be the case on large maps) also appeals.

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December 17, 2015 5:27:23 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums


" This game offers so much more currently than Ashes."
amen. 

and it just pains me that it's not just one domain too... it's all of them

I find it damning that a DX9 game beat a DX 12 game graphically.

that aside the UI in FA just kills ....massively. it's so good.

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December 17, 2015 8:59:29 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting tatsujb,



" This game offers so much more currently than Ashes."

amen. 

and it just pains me that it's not just one domain too... it's all of them

I find it damning that a DX9 game beat a DX 12 game graphically.

that aside the UI in FA just kills ....massively. it's so good.

 

Um, alpha.

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December 17, 2015 10:02:15 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Kazzerigian,


Quoting tatsujb,





" This game offers so much more currently than Ashes."

amen. 

and it just pains me that it's not just one domain too... it's all of them

I find it damning that a DX9 game beat a DX 12 game graphically.

that aside the UI in FA just kills ....massively. it's so good.



 

Um, alpha.

Yes, absolutely - but let's not let that excuse drown out the criticism of the current UI.

 

It does feel clunky and slow, especially if I crank up the detail and FPS drops.

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December 18, 2015 12:17:40 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting tatsujb,


" This game offers so much more currently than Ashes."

amen. 

and it just pains me that it's not just one domain too... it's all of them

I find it damning that a DX9 game beat a DX 12 game graphically.

that aside the UI in FA just kills ....massively. it's so good.

Tat, your fixation with FAF is well known. Please go back to it and leave Ashes alone. 

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December 26, 2015 5:54:14 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Good post, pretty much agree with most of what OP has written.

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December 29, 2015 4:18:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I actually really like the inclusion of victory points and connected nodes from CoH. They give some structure and strategy to the game at a time (alpha) when there isn't a lot of depth yet to the game. Especially in MP, it's nice to have an alternate victory condition to just straight annihilation. There are already enough defensive structures in the game to lock down key connecting nodes (the Sentinel is quite amazing with enough line of site) on defense but it would be nice to still see some additional options. 

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December 30, 2015 12:54:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I agree on the unit variety part - mostly. I dont think its that much of a thing of the lack of T4, as the matter of the existing unit roster already ingame being underwhelming. I hope Substrate are more exciting to play, cause PHC have nothing at their disposal what i would call interesting. I mean, if you think about factions in RTS games, the goal is usually to be able to describe their main traits in few key words/phrases - like say high tech, brute-force, stealth, mobile, strong airforce, economy juggernault, defense oriented, etc., etc., etc.... how is one supposed to describe PHC? I admit i played the game just maybe on 3 separate occasions so far myself and u kinda need to see Substrate to make some comparisons, but still...

I am almost willing to bet that the upcoming Homeworld game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than AotS (clearly its going to be finished and not alpha), at least from my POV. Just seeing that part of the trailer where the planes take off from that land-carrier makes me want to give it a try- this is the kind of depth and attention to detail, which AotS lacks in regard to units. And then u see one faction relying on good old wheels, while other utilizing hovercraft - again little thing, which makes them easier to distinguish and gives them certain unique character/feel...

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December 30, 2015 1:34:34 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

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December 30, 2015 3:21:13 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

The Homeworld game has been in development a lot longer than Ashes, all comes down to budget. I hope it is a great game but the trailer didn't impress me.

I agree the game all being hover is a shame. Seeing a group of fast moving six legged units scamper off, or towering mechs stride past tanks, visually just very interesting and adds character. Oh well, some are likely to come later, and I've got used to the hover aspect. Others might not.

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December 30, 2015 3:34:18 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting The_Engenieer,


Quoting Timmaigh,

I agree on the unit variety part - mostly. I dont think its that much of a thing of the lack of T4, as the matter of the existing unit roster already ingame being underwhelming. I hope Substrate are more exciting to play, cause PHC have nothing at their disposal what i would call interesting. I mean, if you think about factions in RTS games, the goal is usually to be able to describe their main traits in few key words/phrases - like say high tech, brute-force, stealth, mobile, strong airforce, economy juggernault, defense oriented, etc., etc., etc.... how is one supposed to describe PHC? I admit i played the game just maybe on 3 separate occasions so far myself and u kinda need to see Substrate to make some comparisons, but still...

I am almost willing to bet that the upcoming Homeworld game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than AotS (clearly its going to be finished and not alpha), at least from my POV. Just seeing that part of the trailer where the planes take off from that land-carrier makes me want to give it a try- this is the kind of depth and attention to detail, which AotS lacks in regard to units. And then u see one faction relying on good old wheels, while other utilizing hovercraft - again little thing, which makes them easier to distinguish and gives them certain unique character/feel...



 

Yes we still dont have all that ,but we also not even arrive beta so the road will have many surprises.

Do you know how upcoming Homeworld was in the same state has Ashes is now?

Iff you new you could say on the same time  " upcoming Grey Goo game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than Homeworld "

 

Yea, a little benefit of the doubt would go a long way.   The new Homeworld game is a 32-bit, DirectX 9 game.    The game ships in less than 30 days.  Maybe it'll be amazing.  I hope it is.  But to simply assume it'll have more unit differentiation really says more about the person making the claim than it does about Ashes.

Ashes has plenty of units. It just doesn't have a lot of redundant units (i.e. same as this other unit but "better").  That concept was core to SupCom (though not to TA).  You were in a race to get to the bigger, better units. 

In Ashes you have:

  1. Short ranged light unit (Brute) [anti-T1]
  2. Medium range slow firing light unit (Archer) [anti-T2]
  3. Medic (healing unit)
  4. Scout (provides radar)
  5. Heavy short range anti T1 AOE unit (Zeus)
  6. Sniper unit (Nemesis)
  7. Long range artillery unit (Artemis)
  8. Anti-Air unit (Apollo)
  9. Area control unit T3 (Hyperion)
  10. Base destroying T3 (Cronus)
  11. T3 killer (Prometheus)
  12. Air Superiority (Fury)
  13. Air Scout (Pan)
  14. Bomber (Hades)

Now, I can think of other types of units I'd like:

  • Radar Jammer
  • Close air support (Brawler type)
  • Shield Generator type unit
  • Ground-based harassment unit
  • Transport unit

But Ashes isn't like SupCom where there's there's several tiers of roughly the same unit that are simply more powerful. That's not the type of game is it aiming to be.  I'd rather find new powers to give existing units than to add units.  

The most popular RTS, by far, is Starcraft and the Terrans have (as a practical matter):

  1. Light universaal unit (Marine) [T1]
  2. Heavy anti T2 unit (Marauder) [T1]
  3. Harassing ground unit (Reaper) [T1]
  4. Siege unit (Tank) [T2]
  5. Fast harssment unit (Hellion) [T2]
  6. Heavy universal unit (Thor)  [T3]
  7. Area control unit (Widow Mine) [T2]
  8. Close air support / harassment (Banshee) [T2]
  9. Air Superiority (Viking) [T2]
  10. Healing unit / Transport (Medivac) [T2]
  11. Air Artillery unit (Battlecruiser) [T3]
  12. Heavy AOE unit (Hellbat) [T3]

I didn't 8include my favorite unit, the Raven because they nerfed it into obvliion. Same with the ghost.  But even if I did use it, that would be 14 units.

Thus, if anything, I'd be more inclined to give the T3s more abilities to distinguish them better than to add more kinds of units unless those units solved a specific problem.  

I don't ever want to see us in the situation where we have a "same as this unit but better" case.

 

 

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December 30, 2015 5:21:58 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

In Ashes you have:

Short ranged light unit (Brute) [anti-T1]
Medium range slow firing light unit (Archer) [anti-T2]
Medic (healing unit)
Scout (provides radar)
Heavy short range anti T1 AOE unit (Zeus)
Sniper unit (Nemesis)
Long range artillery unit (Artemis)
Anti-Air unit (Apollo)
Area control unit T3 (Hyperion)
Base destroying T3 (Cronus)
T3 killer (Prometheus)
Air Superiority (Fury)
Air Scout (Pan)
Bomber (Hades)

I see those distinctions and acknowledge them as real and enough for the start of the game (I say that as many have said the game doesn't have the distinctions you say). I guess the thing I think some will get more upset about is the fact they all hover and thus in one respect all look similar. Especially as both factions do it. Gone are all the other modes of ground travel that made the battlefield a visual treat. I won't say it again though as no good going over old ground and I've accepted this is how it is going to be.

I do like a lot of different unit types though. An example where you can diverge would be something like a missile AA unit and a Flak AA unit. One would fire less often but be good vs tough bombers, while Flak would be less powerful but be good against lower/close together units like gunships. This beats just one AA unit for me every time. It is just more interesting to have diverse armies. 

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December 30, 2015 8:06:37 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Hovering vs. Non-hovering is purely a cosmetic thing.  I'm not going to imply that cosmetics don't matter. They do.  But there is no gameplay effect in this case.  

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December 30, 2015 8:26:20 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Hovering vs. Non-hovering is purely a cosmetic thing.  I'm not going to imply that cosmetics don't matter. They do.  But there is no gameplay effect in this case.  

I totally agree. I just think cosmetics matter a lot. And I don't just mean for unit movement. Take factories, the factories in Ashes are boring to look at. Even back in TA they had cool animations, and in the Supcom games and PA they carried on with that. The same can be said for the point defence. They look thin and weedy. Even the drone bay should look cool and threatening, but its look and feel is no different to the repair bay really. There should be a feeling of satisfaction from dropping down some meaty point defence and seeing them pound the enemy. This just doesn't exist yet in Ashes. I hope it comes in Beta and I'll enjoy the game regardless but in my opinion this game needs a lot more visual and auditory character to stand out and have lasting appeal to many.

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December 30, 2015 9:27:40 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Ticktoc,


Quoting Frogboy,

Hovering vs. Non-hovering is purely a cosmetic thing.  I'm not going to imply that cosmetics don't matter. They do.  But there is no gameplay effect in this case.  



I totally agree. I just think cosmetics matter a lot. And I don't just mean for unit movement. Take factories, the factories in Ashes are boring to look at. Even back in TA they had cool animations, and in the Supcom games and PA they carried on with that. The same can be said for the point defence. They look thin and weedy. Even the drone bay should look cool and threatening, but its look and feel is no different to the repair bay really. There should be a feeling of satisfaction from dropping down some meaty point defence and seeing them pound the enemy. This just doesn't exist yet in Ashes. I hope it comes in Beta and I'll enjoy the game regardless but in my opinion this game needs a lot more visual and auditory character to stand out and have lasting appeal to many.

It won't.  Not enough budget.  Sorry!

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December 31, 2015 2:06:50 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

It won't. Not enough budget. Sorry!

Yes Cosmetics, eye candy in a game is really important and i do hope that will change in future expansions and DLC's. that's why i think that us who are into this game need to support it as much as possible by getting as many people to try AOTS

Look at Planetary Annihilation when it came out, Alpha Build was not even playable then came Beta build its was so bad! i even deleted the game, when the game came out i installed it again and tried it.do you guys think it was fun? well it was not it sucked so much, so many bugs, error, so many bad things.

It took Planetary Annihilation Dev's around 2 years to get the game optimized and working fine and not even, 2 years after they released the game they had to throw out Planetary Annihilation Titans and charge for it! everyone start bitching out that because PAT was supposed to be PA, the First one and right now everyone is happy with the game, after 2 years, how much was their budget? Kickstarter it was 44,162 backers pledged $2,229,344 that's 2 times the budget of Ashes and they did so bad with PA like really bad.

So you guys are talking about Cosmetics? yes lets get some Modding out there and and they will make crazy awesome things to a game.

What i think we need is a great Map editor and an awesome support for the Modding Community. and what the Dev's need to do i really optimize the game engine as much as possible including the MP part of the game.

Stardock really knows what they are doing and i do trust them because i see their games history So far and they have done a great job in nearly all the games, so people bitch about that the game have only 14 units per side, for me its fine as long as they are fun to play and so far... yes they are fun, they need so much more work,yes everyone knows that.

But come on! we are playing an Alpha build of the game, its not even beta! and you guys are bitching all the time at everything ( we need more units!, the game looks boring, Structures looks boring, unit Movement is bad, Meta units and grouping suck, UI is slow. ) let the Dev's do they job first let them finish the game V1 and after that start talking. ASHES wont be out for at least 6-8 month from now, and that a lot of time for them to fix so many things from Cosmetic to units movement to MP.

Why i am here? its because i do support the Dev's i want to help  as much as i can, doing maps, ideas mock ups, just let them see what we like or what we think and not by comparing to other games

I love the idea of Upgrading units and not having more units, anyway everyone will do with the best units and forget the other units, just tell me How many different Units Does PRO players in FA play with? how many different units? AOTS after Release will add more units, but the are Different (Sea Units, and maybe some new Air Units )

I have been working in 2 different Mokcups to show everyone, 1 for Research tree and the other for the UI, i am trying to show you guys at least 1 before years end, i do that for fun and not in anyway to tell the Dev's i want my way or i will not buy it or support it.\

Well anyway My Impression of Ashes currently is great so far in ALPHA Build, Beta will change a lot and is gonna be so much better and cooler.

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December 31, 2015 4:49:05 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

It won't.  Not enough budget.  Sorry!

Thank you for your succinct response Reality (budgets) is a cruel mistress.

As I said I am and will continue to enjoy the game, I just really like those sorts of elements.

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December 31, 2015 9:29:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Frogboy,


Quoting The_Engenieer,






Quoting Timmaigh,



I agree on the unit variety part - mostly. I dont think its that much of a thing of the lack of T4, as the matter of the existing unit roster already ingame being underwhelming. I hope Substrate are more exciting to play, cause PHC have nothing at their disposal what i would call interesting. I mean, if you think about factions in RTS games, the goal is usually to be able to describe their main traits in few key words/phrases - like say high tech, brute-force, stealth, mobile, strong airforce, economy juggernault, defense oriented, etc., etc., etc.... how is one supposed to describe PHC? I admit i played the game just maybe on 3 separate occasions so far myself and u kinda need to see Substrate to make some comparisons, but still...

I am almost willing to bet that the upcoming Homeworld game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than AotS (clearly its going to be finished and not alpha), at least from my POV. Just seeing that part of the trailer where the planes take off from that land-carrier makes me want to give it a try- this is the kind of depth and attention to detail, which AotS lacks in regard to units. And then u see one faction relying on good old wheels, while other utilizing hovercraft - again little thing, which makes them easier to distinguish and gives them certain unique character/feel...



 

Yes we still dont have all that ,but we also not even arrive beta so the road will have many surprises.

Do you know how upcoming Homeworld was in the same state has Ashes is now?

Iff you new you could say on the same time  " upcoming Grey Goo game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than Homeworld "



 

Yea, a little benefit of the doubt would go a long way.   The new Homeworld game is a 32-bit, DirectX 9 game.    The game ships in less than 30 days.  Maybe it'll be amazing.  I hope it is.  But to simply assume it'll have more unit differentiation really says more about the person making the claim than it does about Ashes.

Ashes has plenty of units. It just doesn't have a lot of redundant units (i.e. same as this other unit but "better").  That concept was core to SupCom (though not to TA).  You were in a race to get to the bigger, better units. 

In Ashes you have:

 

    1. Short ranged light unit (Brute) [anti-T1]

 

    1. Medium range slow firing light unit (Archer) [anti-T2]

 

    1. Medic (healing unit)

 

    1. Scout (provides radar)

 

    1. Heavy short range anti T1 AOE unit (Zeus)

 

    1. Sniper unit (Nemesis)

 

    1. Long range artillery unit (Artemis)

 

    1. Anti-Air unit (Apollo)

 

    1. Area control unit T3 (Hyperion)

 

    1. Base destroying T3 (Cronus)

 

    1. T3 killer (Prometheus)

 

    1. Air Superiority (Fury)

 

    1. Air Scout (Pan)

 

    1. Bomber (Hades)

 


Now, I can think of other types of units I'd like:

 

    • Radar Jammer

 

    • Close air support (Brawler type)

 

    • Shield Generator type unit

 

    • Ground-based harassment unit

 

    • Transport unit

 


But Ashes isn't like SupCom where there's there's several tiers of roughly the same unit that are simply more powerful. That's not the type of game is it aiming to be.  I'd rather find new powers to give existing units than to add units.  

The most popular RTS, by far, is Starcraft and the Terrans have (as a practical matter):

 

    1. Light universaal unit (Marine) [T1]

 

    1. Heavy anti T2 unit (Marauder) [T1]

 

    1. Harassing ground unit (Reaper) [T1]

 

    1. Siege unit (Tank) [T2]

 

    1. Fast harssment unit (Hellion) [T2]

 

    1. Heavy universal unit (Thor)  [T3]

 

    1. Area control unit (Widow Mine) [T2]

 

    1. Close air support / harassment (Banshee) [T2]

 

    1. Air Superiority (Viking) [T2]

 

    1. Healing unit / Transport (Medivac) [T2]

 

    1. Air Artillery unit (Battlecruiser) [T3]

 

    1. Heavy AOE unit (Hellbat) [T3]

 


I didn't 8include my favorite unit, the Raven because they nerfed it into obvliion. Same with the ghost.  But even if I did use it, that would be 14 units.

Thus, if anything, I'd be more inclined to give the T3s more abilities to distinguish them better than to add more kinds of units unless those units solved a specific problem.  

I don't ever want to see us in the situation where we have a "same as this unit but better" case.

 

 

 

What exactly does it say about me, Frogboy? I realize Ashes is in alpha, while HW is about to get released, i said as much in my previous post, i think. And saying that i bet HW is going to have better unit differentiation is nothing more than wild guess based on my current opinion on the single playable Ashes faction, which is clearly not that high. Bottom line, regardless of what i said, i did get Ashes already - if that is not giving a benefit of doubt, i dont know what is.

I am not really asking for more units, i understand you dont want redundant units. Well, i would love to see navies (cause i think if i add them via DLCs they wont be more than afterthought) and i think there is a place for more air unit roles (and i think the air gameplay needs to be revamped overall), but i dont require 300 unit types like many TA/SupCom fans. 

Its just, as i said, the PHC need more character, both in regard to their gameplay related traits and visuals, cause in my humble opinion, for the moment, they are bland and generic. No offense please. Perhaps working on that is plan for the beta, i have no way to be sure. 

I dont really like StarCraft personally, i actually prefer Ashes gameplay, but there is one thing well done in StarCraft and that is faction design. So when you list Terran unit roster as a source of inspiration gameplay-role wise, you realize bunch of them are infantry types, then there is some bike, tank, mech, several types of aircraft... while PHC is hovercraft, hovercraft, hovercraft.... then people have issues to distinct them ingame while zoomed out and ask for icons..well, color me surprised.

I had few more things at mind, but my 5 year old niece tries mo to remove off computer to play some games, LOL...so maybe later. In the meantime, happy New year!

 

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December 31, 2015 1:04:34 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Hovering vs. Non-hovering is purely a cosmetic thing.  I'm not going to imply that cosmetics don't matter. They do.  But there is no gameplay effect in this case.  
there is. especially in a simulated projectile title. 

that is if the projectiles are simulated.

 

but assuming they are. one could dodge the shots better than the other.

 

and then there's the matter of hovers float over water and can cross it. Tracked or legged vehicles, if amphibious will cross the water bodies by walking on the seabed, if they aren't amphibious they can't traverse at all and that's a very interesting bit for strategies right there.

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December 31, 2015 10:08:58 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

shots are already dodged. has nothing to do with locomotion.

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January 1, 2016 9:12:24 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

shots are already dodged. has nothing to do with locomotion.
actually it does. assuming reaction time acceleration and speed are different between the two types of units you could notice differences in dodged shots at the final critical point where the units was still standing still; in the point where the unit was starting to accelerate and when the unit was in full speed and even the cases in that case where it attempts a turn. and so on and so forth. there could be an infinite number of differences in results that start to spring up.

 you're not telling me you'd have legged units and tracked units hover about the way hover units do when they're idle currently as well, are you? I won't even mention the ludicrous 900% speeds boosts you get for units that shortly clipped somewhere that are rejoining a meta-unit.

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January 1, 2016 12:12:24 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

units don't get a speed boost for rejoining a meta unit. And walking vs. hovering wouldn't affect whether a shot misses or not. 

Tat, I'll never take your feedback seriously on this issue as long as you continue to ignore the problems of supcom's projectiles (endlessly shooting into hllls for instance).  Ashes projectile system is far beyond what was in supcom's (more cpu power allows it to model the projectiles more).

 Supcom's system was based on the x,y,z location of the enemy and fired at that location. There was no firing solution. a walking unit that idled by walking around a bit would dodge just as well as a hover unit that idles around. I sometimes wonder if you really even play this game.

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January 1, 2016 10:04:28 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

a walking unit that idled by walking around a bit
WHY WOULD IT DO THAT???

and again this wasn't the only factor I brought up. How could one design a unit with a different type of locomotion and yet choose to preserve absolutely all factors relating to it's movement 100% 

  • capacity to move in 360° VS. only backwards and forwards VS. only forwards
  • turn speed
  • max turning angle
  • acceleration during first half of acceleration
  • acceleration during second half of acceleration
  • deceleration
  • **HOVER ONLY** hovering about (which makes sense if the "pulses" sent by the hover technology have a random factor as is the case with airflow for examples and explains this constant "balancing" drones for example have to do. somebody standing up doesn't stumble/stagger around to keep his balance does he? (unless he's drunk!))
of course one would exploit 100% of these diversifying factors.

Quoting Frogboy,

units don't get a speed boost for rejoining a meta unit.
yeah it's a bug. I've reported it tons already in the main bug thread. but don't deny it happens.

hover units that are a part of a meta unit will have to "catch up" sometimes and as such they'll perform speeds well in excess of their max to do so.

this is all only a symptom of the "it's a feature not a bug" attitude we're going with here.

Meta-unit provides easy pathfinding and cpu overhead? great! all units hover. now we can justify how units on the peripherals of a meta unit slide sideways and attain such massive speeds. Oh but that means we can't have any other type of units as treads and legs couldn't be made to look even the slightest bit ok-ish with these extreme movements. Fine! it's now a in-house design choice that we'll stand by no matter what that we're doing hover-only.

I dunno. I feel like it's a damn missed opportunity for expansion of the engine to not have designed it with the ultimate goal of hover being in mind but starting out with working individual unit movements and working your way up to having them move as one and look good instead of this aproach.

I'm not liking that you're defending this as a design choice rather then a technical one.

Quoting Frogboy,

Tat, I'll never take your feedback seriously on this issue as long as you continue to ignore the problems of supcom's projectiles (endlessly shooting into hllls for instance).  Ashes projectile system is far beyond what was in supcom's (more cpu power allows it to model the projectiles more).

 Supcom's system was based on the x,y,z location of the enemy and fired at that location. There was no firing solution.

 

sim pro from FA to Ashes; I'm perfectly willing to believe the code behind it is more sophisticated in Ashes. It isn't being put to use as much as it could. to such an extent that it seems like simulated projectiles are entirely absent from ashes.

as I've said before there is no visual queue made obvious enough for a projectile impacting the ground or a unit. right now both look like they're on the ground. Also from following unit's HP as closely as I could I have seen very rare cases of actual avoiding.

Maybe the hitboxes are way too big. this is also something I said before.

either way nothing is done to facilitate the player's witnessing of the projectiles at work.

I'd be very interested in statistics over a match of actual missed shots and a clip to see what one looks like so that I know what to look for and so that I can give feedback as to how to make them look more evident.

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January 2, 2016 4:31:56 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Like I said, Tat, I don't take your feedback seriously. After many months of trying to understand your motivations i've just had enough.  

It's like you're playing a different game. Projectiles miss all the time in Ashes. Probably about half the time if the unit is moving and the missile has no guidance system to lock onto a target. 

Every few weeks I get a PM from someone either asking you to be banned or threatening to leave the forum if you're not banned.

You're a SupCom fan boy that would turn this game into a pale imitation of SupCom.  I don't understand why you're even here. You hijack half the posts you participate in to either bash Ashes because it doesn't have some feature or design that FAF has or to outright advocate FAF. 

Go play FAF. 

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January 2, 2016 8:02:42 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

  

Every few weeks I get a PM from someone either asking you to be banned or threatening to leave the forum if you're not banned.


Go play FAF. 

 

Ban a player just because he even has some knowledge and sees the game technique used differently!!! wat?

Well this is completely ridiculous.

 

Reminds me on Steam someone questioned what has Supreeme Commander of diferent with AOTS because he didnt new, just because I said what have diferent that has nothing to do with what ashes is or not, been banned from the forum ,call me troll just because players begin to agree with me.

Not that i care that this just another game watever will it be, but its really easy to get what kind community this will be when players dont accept other opinions.

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