I like your thoughts on unit upgrades and believe it could add to the game in the way you explain. If you have 10 levels per upgrade that is still a fair amount and also allows them to be named which add to the feeling of the game. Limiting quanta so you have to make much tougher decisions instead of having so many quanta relays everywhere that you don't have to think so much about what you are going to spend it on (which can be the case on large maps) also appeals.

Yes, absolutely - but let's not let that excuse drown out the criticism of the current UI.

It does feel clunky and slow, especially if I crank up the detail and FPS drops.

Good post, pretty much agree with most of what OP has written.

I agree on the unit variety part - mostly. I dont think its that much of a thing of the lack of T4, as the matter of the existing unit roster already ingame being underwhelming. I hope Substrate are more exciting to play, cause PHC have nothing at their disposal what i would call interesting. I mean, if you think about factions in RTS games, the goal is usually to be able to describe their main traits in few key words/phrases - like say high tech, brute-force, stealth, mobile, strong airforce, economy juggernault, defense oriented, etc., etc., etc.... how is one supposed to describe PHC? I admit i played the game just maybe on 3 separate occasions so far myself and u kinda need to see Substrate to make some comparisons, but still...

I am almost willing to bet that the upcoming Homeworld game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than AotS (clearly its going to be finished and not alpha), at least from my POV. Just seeing that part of the trailer where the planes take off from that land-carrier makes me want to give it a try- this is the kind of depth and attention to detail, which AotS lacks in regard to units. And then u see one faction relying on good old wheels, while other utilizing hovercraft - again little thing, which makes them easier to distinguish and gives them certain unique character/feel...

The Homeworld game has been in development a lot longer than Ashes, all comes down to budget. I hope it is a great game but the trailer didn't impress me.

I agree the game all being hover is a shame. Seeing a group of fast moving six legged units scamper off, or towering mechs stride past tanks, visually just very interesting and adds character. Oh well, some are likely to come later, and I've got used to the hover aspect. Others might not.

I see those distinctions and acknowledge them as real and enough for the start of the game (I say that as many have said the game doesn't have the distinctions you say). I guess the thing I think some will get more upset about is the fact they all hover and thus in one respect all look similar. Especially as both factions do it. Gone are all the other modes of ground travel that made the battlefield a visual treat. I won't say it again though as no good going over old ground and I've accepted this is how it is going to be.

I do like a lot of different unit types though. An example where you can diverge would be something like a missile AA unit and a Flak AA unit. One would fire less often but be good vs tough bombers, while Flak would be less powerful but be good against lower/close together units like gunships. This beats just one AA unit for me every time. It is just more interesting to have diverse armies. 

I totally agree. I just think cosmetics matter a lot. And I don't just mean for unit movement. Take factories, the factories in Ashes are boring to look at. Even back in TA they had cool animations, and in the Supcom games and PA they carried on with that. The same can be said for the point defence. They look thin and weedy. Even the drone bay should look cool and threatening, but its look and feel is no different to the repair bay really. There should be a feeling of satisfaction from dropping down some meaty point defence and seeing them pound the enemy. This just doesn't exist yet in Ashes. I hope it comes in Beta and I'll enjoy the game regardless but in my opinion this game needs a lot more visual and auditory character to stand out and have lasting appeal to many.

Yes Cosmetics, eye candy in a game is really important and i do hope that will change in future expansions and DLC's. that's why i think that us who are into this game need to support it as much as possible by getting as many people to try AOTS

Look at Planetary Annihilation when it came out, Alpha Build was not even playable then came Beta build its was so bad! i even deleted the game, when the game came out i installed it again and tried it.do you guys think it was fun? well it was not it sucked so much, so many bugs, error, so many bad things.

It took Planetary Annihilation Dev's around 2 years to get the game optimized and working fine and not even, 2 years after they released the game they had to throw out Planetary Annihilation Titans and charge for it! everyone start bitching out that because PAT was supposed to be PA, the First one and right now everyone is happy with the game, after 2 years, how much was their budget? Kickstarter it was 44,162 backers pledged $2,229,344 that's 2 times the budget of Ashes and they did so bad with PA like really bad.

So you guys are talking about Cosmetics? yes lets get some Modding out there and and they will make crazy awesome things to a game.

What i think we need is a great Map editor and an awesome support for the Modding Community. and what the Dev's need to do i really optimize the game engine as much as possible including the MP part of the game.

Stardock really knows what they are doing and i do trust them because i see their games history So far and they have done a great job in nearly all the games, so people bitch about that the game have only 14 units per side, for me its fine as long as they are fun to play and so far... yes they are fun, they need so much more work,yes everyone knows that.

But come on! we are playing an Alpha build of the game, its not even beta! and you guys are bitching all the time at everything ( we need more units!, the game looks boring, Structures looks boring, unit Movement is bad, Meta units and grouping suck, UI is slow. ) let the Dev's do they job first let them finish the game V1 and after that start talking. ASHES wont be out for at least 6-8 month from now, and that a lot of time for them to fix so many things from Cosmetic to units movement to MP.

Why i am here? its because i do support the Dev's i want to help  as much as i can, doing maps, ideas mock ups, just let them see what we like or what we think and not by comparing to other games

I love the idea of Upgrading units and not having more units, anyway everyone will do with the best units and forget the other units, just tell me How many different Units Does PRO players in FA play with? how many different units? AOTS after Release will add more units, but the are Different (Sea Units, and maybe some new Air Units )

I have been working in 2 different Mokcups to show everyone, 1 for Research tree and the other for the UI, i am trying to show you guys at least 1 before years end, i do that for fun and not in anyway to tell the Dev's i want my way or i will not buy it or support it.\

Well anyway My Impression of Ashes currently is great so far in ALPHA Build, Beta will change a lot and is gonna be so much better and cooler.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 11

Quoting The_Engenieer,

reply 9

Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 8

I agree on the unit variety part - mostly. I dont think its that much of a thing of the lack of T4, as the matter of the existing unit roster already ingame being underwhelming. I hope Substrate are more exciting to play, cause PHC have nothing at their disposal what i would call interesting. I mean, if you think about factions in RTS games, the goal is usually to be able to describe their main traits in few key words/phrases - like say high tech, brute-force, stealth, mobile, strong airforce, economy juggernault, defense oriented, etc., etc., etc.... how is one supposed to describe PHC? I admit i played the game just maybe on 3 separate occasions so far myself and u kinda need to see Substrate to make some comparisons, but still...

I am almost willing to bet that the upcoming Homeworld game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than AotS (clearly its going to be finished and not alpha), at least from my POV. Just seeing that part of the trailer where the planes take off from that land-carrier makes me want to give it a try- this is the kind of depth and attention to detail, which AotS lacks in regard to units. And then u see one faction relying on good old wheels, while other utilizing hovercraft - again little thing, which makes them easier to distinguish and gives them certain unique character/feel...

 

Yes we still dont have all that ,but we also not even arrive beta so the road will have many surprises.

Do you know how upcoming Homeworld was in the same state has Ashes is now?

Iff you new you could say on the same time  " upcoming Grey Goo game is going to have better fleshed factions out of the box than Homeworld "

 

Yea, a little benefit of the doubt would go a long way.   The new Homeworld game is a 32-bit, DirectX 9 game.    The game ships in less than 30 days.  Maybe it'll be amazing.  I hope it is.  But to simply assume it'll have more unit differentiation really says more about the person making the claim than it does about Ashes.

Ashes has plenty of units. It just doesn't have a lot of redundant units (i.e. same as this other unit but "better").  That concept was core to SupCom (though not to TA).  You were in a race to get to the bigger, better units. 

In Ashes you have:

 

1. Short ranged light unit (Brute) [anti-T1]

 

1. Medium range slow firing light unit (Archer) [anti-T2]

 

1. Medic (healing unit)

 

1. Scout (provides radar)

 

1. Heavy short range anti T1 AOE unit (Zeus)

 

1. Sniper unit (Nemesis)

 

1. Long range artillery unit (Artemis)

 

1. Anti-Air unit (Apollo)

 

1. Area control unit T3 (Hyperion)

 

1. Base destroying T3 (Cronus)

 

1. T3 killer (Prometheus)

 

1. Air Superiority (Fury)

 

1. Air Scout (Pan)

 

1. Bomber (Hades)

 

Now, I can think of other types of units I'd like:

 

• Radar Jammer

 

• Close air support (Brawler type)

 

• Shield Generator type unit

 

• Ground-based harassment unit

 

• Transport unit

 

But Ashes isn't like SupCom where there's there's several tiers of roughly the same unit that are simply more powerful. That's not the type of game is it aiming to be.  I'd rather find new powers to give existing units than to add units.  

The most popular RTS, by far, is Starcraft and the Terrans have (as a practical matter):

 

1. Light universaal unit (Marine) [T1]

 

1. Heavy anti T2 unit (Marauder) [T1]

 

1. Harassing ground unit (Reaper) [T1]

 

1. Siege unit (Tank) [T2]

 

1. Fast harssment unit (Hellion) [T2]

 

1. Heavy universal unit (Thor)  [T3]

 

1. Area control unit (Widow Mine) [T2]

 

1. Close air support / harassment (Banshee) [T2]

 

1. Air Superiority (Viking) [T2]

 

1. Healing unit / Transport (Medivac) [T2]

 

1. Air Artillery unit (Battlecruiser) [T3]

 

1. Heavy AOE unit (Hellbat) [T3]

 

I didn't 8include my favorite unit, the Raven because they nerfed it into obvliion. Same with the ghost.  But even if I did use it, that would be 14 units.

Thus, if anything, I'd be more inclined to give the T3s more abilities to distinguish them better than to add more kinds of units unless those units solved a specific problem.  

I don't ever want to see us in the situation where we have a "same as this unit but better" case.

 

 

What exactly does it say about me, Frogboy? I realize Ashes is in alpha, while HW is about to get released, i said as much in my previous post, i think. And saying that i bet HW is going to have better unit differentiation is nothing more than wild guess based on my current opinion on the single playable Ashes faction, which is clearly not that high. Bottom line, regardless of what i said, i did get Ashes already - if that is not giving a benefit of doubt, i dont know what is.

I am not really asking for more units, i understand you dont want redundant units. Well, i would love to see navies (cause i think if i add them via DLCs they wont be more than afterthought) and i think there is a place for more air unit roles (and i think the air gameplay needs to be revamped overall), but i dont require 300 unit types like many TA/SupCom fans. 

Its just, as i said, the PHC need more character, both in regard to their gameplay related traits and visuals, cause in my humble opinion, for the moment, they are bland and generic. No offense please. Perhaps working on that is plan for the beta, i have no way to be sure. 

I dont really like StarCraft personally, i actually prefer Ashes gameplay, but there is one thing well done in StarCraft and that is faction design. So when you list Terran unit roster as a source of inspiration gameplay-role wise, you realize bunch of them are infantry types, then there is some bike, tank, mech, several types of aircraft... while PHC is hovercraft, hovercraft, hovercraft.... then people have issues to distinct them ingame while zoomed out and ask for icons..well, color me surprised.

I had few more things at mind, but my 5 year old niece tries mo to remove off computer to play some games, LOL...so maybe later. In the meantime, happy New year!

units don't get a speed boost for rejoining a meta unit. And walking vs. hovering wouldn't affect whether a shot misses or not. 

Tat, I'll never take your feedback seriously on this issue as long as you continue to ignore the problems of supcom's projectiles (endlessly shooting into hllls for instance).  Ashes projectile system is far beyond what was in supcom's (more cpu power allows it to model the projectiles more).

 Supcom's system was based on the x,y,z location of the enemy and fired at that location. There was no firing solution. a walking unit that idled by walking around a bit would dodge just as well as a hover unit that idles around. I sometimes wonder if you really even play this game.

Ban a player just because he even has some knowledge and sees the game technique used differently!!! wat?

Well this is completely ridiculous.

Reminds me on Steam someone questioned what has Supreeme Commander of diferent with AOTS because he didnt new, just because I said what have diferent that has nothing to do with what ashes is or not, been banned from the forum ,call me troll just because players begin to agree with me.

Not that i care that this just another game watever will it be, but its really easy to get what kind community this will be when players dont accept other opinions.

So ominous sounding! Does that include no more bumps of the FAF thread in the Ashes sub-forum too?