Why I think resurrection is impossible in Galciv :

If you suffer a cultural defeat people don't even know the habits and culture of what was Terran.
So why would they get independent and form back as Terrans ?

Even if some AI decides to destroy the SB's and colonies who have cultural influence, that would not change anything since there is no Terran influence to take it back, why ? Terrans don't exist anymore

At military defeat all the terrans on the planet are killed.
It displays the population in the invasion screen, if the planet is taken all the Terrans on that planet are dead, if those where soldiers then you would only see the soldier pop ingame but that is not true.

At tech defeat the game would simply end, but for all races leaving resurrection impossible.

So either way there is no way back realisticly after any defeat.

I just don't understand the thinking. There would be plenty of your allies living on your planets.

Obviously, many thousands of individuals will be spread across different planets in the galaxy. So there would certainly be representatives of a former ally able to resume control of their homeworld.

I'm just saying that it could be an option for a "good" player. Obviously, an evil player would never return a homeworld to a former ally.

But on that dinstinction lies the difference between good and evil.

drengin don't fit well into armani suits

and they smell bad also

The point about being culturaly dominated makes it hard to realize a liberated civilization, but a few of you have mentioned realism as an argument to defeat liberation. It actually works the other way. If you thought of it realistically you'd have to have liberation. Why?

Even if you were culturaly dominated, in real life there would be some that would remember the "glory days" of what Terran Culture was. But cultural domination is the one thing that makes me iffy about GalCiv. I don't see it as realistic at all. It's hard enough to think that fellow humans would join another culturaly dominating nation, let along someone throwing away the heritage of their own species because they like another alien species culture more. Regardless of what we say, most people do not like being considered outcasts or traitor by their own society, and the Humans that didn't switch sides would always think of the ones that did as traitors. Even though I'm not sure about cultural domination I still think it might make the game interesting, so I'm not doging it in anyway. I'm just looking at it realistically.

Another point is the "dead is dead" argument. To think that we commit genocide everytime we conquer a planet is very unrealistic. It just wouldn't happen. Even an Evil empire wouldn't do it because they would surely rather have free slave labor unless they were just blood enemies with the conquered. Maybe an option to committ genocide could be implemented. If you accept, then you're more evil, if you don't you get free slave labor which manifests itself as production bonuses, but you also have to deal with possible rebellions and terrorism.

I know some of you are thinking, "who cares about realism, it's a game". But i think most people like that realistic feel to a game even though we know its still a work of fiction.

hi Ancient Warrior

by the way i can with core detonation, mass drivers, and other invasion options, not only take the plkanet back to the stoneage i can take it from a habitable planet (usually class 14/15 and higher) down to a class 8 or 9, which is totally unihabitable.

I can't wait to hear what you think when you finally get the game. I've had that luxury, you hopefully will experience it very soon.

rich

One of the things I like about GalCiv is that it knows it's a game. This is not a simulation. Even if you're "good" and another "good" race can squash you, they will. Why? Because all the AIs are trying to win the game. Rules like this detract players from the goal of winning the game. Want a space empire simulator? Get MOO3. Want a fun single player game set in space? We have it right here.

How can these rules detract from the game?

If you want to re-establish your ally on their homeworld, then do it. If not, then don't.

It doesn't detract from the goal at all but simply provides another option for good players. MOO3 has nothing to do with this.

I know, I just like mentioning MOO3 'cause it pisses people off
I'm just saying that in game terms, there is no point to reviving allies. How is getting them back in the game going to help you win? It isn't.

I'm all for this myself. I'm always a fight to the last type of person and don't like to quit just because I know i'll likely lose. I like the hard fight.

Though I have studied history a bit by the way and in the case of a true cultural domination I don't think the majority of the people would want to go back to the old ways.. At least thats my thoughts.

How about demanding the release of a former ally's planets as part of a peace treaty?

About genocide, it doesn't always happen in real life, but in the game it is the only way to conquer the planet military.

About ppl who would still remember the glory days, that can be true but if there are still those ppl I think that you as nation haven't lost yet.

There might be some ppl left even after the Terrans who don't exist, those would be rebels or ppl silently living (probably away from the mass)

I think that those ppl can regroup, but that you can just continue the way it was b4 your defeat seems unlikely.

Btw what are the chances of survival with 1 planet in a galaxy ?
Even with my mothership idea your chance of survival is vertually zero lol

The problem I see with this suggestion (although at first I liked it) is that it would make winning impossible. The concept for this game seems to be that the A.I. and player work from the same set of rules with no cheating. If its okay for you to rise from the ashes, then any apparent victory you have would be, by definition, only temporary. Maybe if you would have clicked "next turn" 500 more times after winning, a once-defeated foe would re-emerge. Nothing other than total obliteration of every non-human creature could be considered a final victory. :notsure: :notsure:

HI LifeWish,

First of all I can't see anyway the A.I. could come back once you win.
If you've beaten everyone then who is left to liberate them?
Second, If you conquer one A.I. and eventually lose that planet to another A.I. down the line and they liberate that planet, you probably weren't doing that good anyway. As long as you conquer and don't get beat back by another civilization then you'd be okay, but even if you did lose ground you could still come back. Whether or not an A.I. gets liberated makes no difference on how many planets you have to conquer anyway because sometimes its a see-saw battle for planets no matter what.

midnight louie,
I agree about the mass drivers and such, but if you just used normal warfare then there could still be the possibility of liberation.

Question: Did the layout for the U.P used to be different then what it is now? I saw a pick on gamespot

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,476128,00.html?page=43

The U.P. screen looks a lot different than the recent ones i've seen.

Do you have to go to war with a race who's at war with your ally or is it an option?

crap, broken link. heck, i don't know how to do it anyway. maybe all those extra numbers to the side shouldn't be there. Well, if you look at the screens on gamespot, about the 7th page then you'll know what i'm talking about.

you don't have to go to war with a race is at war with you ally on certain conditions.

Hi Ancient Warrior

If he is at war before you joined an alliance then you are not required to do so.

If he just declared war, you have 2 options, go to war or to break the alliance.

sometimes you will go to war and then do a peace treaty. If your senate is powerful enough they might disagree with the peace treay and say we must support our ally therefore we vote to go to war.

I think when you play the game a whole lot of this will become clearer

rich

In reality countries can get liberated, so why can't planets get liberated 2 ? (In Galciv)

Cause the way how Galciv works is that troops are the same ppl as all the inhabitants.
For examples, if Earth got 10B ppl and it gets attacked you see 10B people defend (not all will fight tho, since they are not soldiers all)

When someone invades a planet it only changes race when all the enemy forces are gone(means everyone)

Not that the idea of liberation is bad, but it's just not possible after a planet has been conquered militarily.
Or some 'adjustments' should be made to Galciv that the planets defender troops are shown and not the whole population at the invasion screen.

That way the attacker should also get the option to do genocide.
But who would choose not 2 do that then ?

If you don't wipe out everything you can lose that planet l8er on, if you do it you always have your planet (untill you lose it the conventional ways)

Wow, taking a planet is always by genocide? See, I didn't know that... oh what I could've known if only I'd had the Beta... I don't like that. But it does explain things, like why a large empire wouldn't fall apart... because everyone's your race.

Good point Obliterator, but let me tell you why you wouldn't always choose genocide.

2 options: 1.)Commit genocide = more alignment towards evil, but no rebellions from alien population (in the long run). Say it takes a 9 to 10 months (turns) to kill off 4 or 5 billion people, during that time you are vulurable to mass resistence events from that planet (since people don't like being mass murdered). But once their all gone the planet is yours. If it gets conquered again then there is no way that planet can be liberated and given back to the empire you took it from because you killed all those aliens on that planet.

2. Use population as slave labor= no alignment shift either way since your at war. You will have to deal with increased possibility of rebellion from that planet, but it would be much less that from genocide. The good part is you have 4 or 5 billion slaves which translates into massive production, manufacturing, and research bonuses for that planet.

Some people would choose option 2 for the massive bonuses.

using captured population for slaves would be considred evil even when at war. Ever heard of the Geneva convention? Specifically bans this because it's evil and unacceptable. Let me add some extra options.

1. genocide - poorer relations with ALL non pure evil races. - evil morality. - damage to infrastructure and planet quality (sabotage. if you knew your race was being wiped out would you nuke the planet, destroy what the invaders want?)

2. slaves - increased risk of rebellion. - higher maintenance costs - higher production - lower population growth - evil morality - low cultural resistance

3. occupied - increased risk of rebellion. - higher maintenance costs - lower production - gradual return to normal levels over X years

4. Self governing (Democracy + Federation only) - highest risk of rebellion - no extra maintenance costs - no negative diplomancy costs - good morality - standard production - rebellion risk drops over time.

Paul.

I see your point Solitair, but the reason I'd make slavery a non-evil option is because the way the game is set up. Genocide is evil, but if slavery is evil as well, then no one would be able to play this game going for military conquest and be good because every time they conquered a planet their only options would be evil. This is why I made slavery a non-evil option, but only if your at war.

Maybe we could say that slavery is slightly evil if you start the war, but if someone else declares war on you and you beat them, then slavery would not be evil. Again, I only use it this way so that races with good alignment can conquer the galaxy without becoming evil.

Actually Ancient, that would make a nice feature.

For example :

Genocide (evil) No risk of rebellion but reduces
planet quality usually.
Slavery (neutral) High risk of rebelling, increased
production
Normal war (good) Medium risk of rebelling(people are
treated well, but still under control
of the other race) leaving normal
production. (in about 2 generations
the planet would become 'normal')

If that would happen (combined with the options on how you take the planet, massdrivers, traditional, etc) planets can get liberated.

That way you have to think about your actions and the efects you wish just like the events you come across while playing Galciv.
An example about an event in the game :

'do you dump the underwater pukes to have increased research' ? (With the risk of stepping on the tails of the good civs in the game you are playing)

Or do you condens the underwater population to have a small increase in research, which is considered to have a neutral effect ?

Perhaps you would like to leave the ppl alone and gain other types of bonusses in later stages of the game ?

With other words : short term or long term effects

[q](combined with the options on how you take the planet, massdrivers, traditional, etc)[/q]

That is combined with the options which are already in the gamma and gold

To get back to the original thread topic for a moment... With all due respect to those who have actually played the game (which I have not) and who may actually know what they are talking about (which I very well may not ) I have to restate my earlier position on the problem of allowing races to re-emerge. From what I'm reading here it appears possible to win the game without killing off all the other races. So say you achieve some kind of economic or cultural victory. Who's to say that is permanent? How many "next turn" clicks until some underground movement collapses your empire? My point is that all victories (other then total genocide of all other races) is theorically only temporary. So allowing your empire to re-emerge means allowing all A.I. races the same chance. When do you totally and finally win? If "re-emerging" civs is allowed only one way: Genocide.

Well if you lose your planet due to a culural defeat the ppl on it have more affection with the race who culturally dominated them.

They have the habits, the food, the daily things all like simulair to the other race.
Eventually the people want to be part of that race. (in Galciv)

Offcourse l8er on there might be a chance that the people on it which are not part of the race that had culturally dominating them wants to break free.
But that can also happen to people who are actually part of 1 race, like some Arceans that disagreas with other Arceans and want to break free (which can happen in an event)

The result would be that if an AI had won since they reach a state of fully cultural influence troughout the whole galaxy that you would get pull back from your *lost* screen and suddenly get kicked back into the game LOL

About technical victory, you (or an ai) can get so advanced that you just lose the game. (This does take time, so you can prepare for it and try to stop AI's or disrupt AI's if you know they are persuing technical victory)

It doesn't matter if you can reach that technical level 2 within a few years.

[Fantasy mode]Remember tho no victory or race can ever last forever, you will never know if the race who won will eventually be falling apart, wiped out by a catastrofe or minor races who have emerged to major powers within like 200 years (The previous minors could be majors, and the 'ancients' would be the Terrans, Arceans or the last race who previously won LOL) starting another era of 'Galciv' but then with the Scotlingass or so lol.[Fantasy mode]

Quote: "Who's to say that is permanent? How many "next turn" clicks until some underground movement collapses your empire? My point is that all victories (other then total genocide of all other races) is theorically only temporary"

Actually that doesn't apply when you win the game. We are talking about Liberation by your allies or another race with other motives for doing so. If you have won the game then there is no way another race can liberate any other because they have all been beaten by you. Now if you took into account underground movements then any race could liberate themselves through rebellion, but we're only dealing with other races liberating other conquered races.

Already the betas has said that some of your planets can leave your empire do to some event, so in any case liberation shouldn't be a problem. If a colony can leave your empire do to an event already, then they could do it after you won the game, yet it doesn't happen cause when you win then its gameover, start a new one, so liberation just doesn't apply after you've beat everybody.