How Do You Define Heaven and Hell?

You've been fooled all your life.  There can be no such thing as eternal bliss or eternal misery.   Why?

Because it's impossible to have one without the other.  It's like saying "Everything is big".   Well that's impossible, because without something small, big means nothing.   If you existed in bliss for a day, week month, 100 years....it would become unblissful, and rather, just the norm.  Think about when you get a scrape on your arm.  It hurts.  And then it hurts more, and continues to hurt.   But after an hour or so of having the scrape, you acknowledge the pain, without really feeling it anymore.

If you were in hell and "deprived of god", well eventually you would forget what being in the presence of god was like.   And if you have somethign to remind you, well...that would indeed be a moment of bliss and not misery.

 

Good points JeremyG.

In a parable Jesus taught, He says that the rich man will look up and see Lazarus, a poor man, in the arms of Abraham and beg Lazarus (whom he'd "tortured" all his life) to dip his finger in water and place one drop on his tounge to quench it. It seems to me Jesus is saying there is a window of some sort where at least those in hell can see into heaven. And I do beleive hell is a place of eternal memory. Always remembering.

I agree with Sherrye. That's what I've always been taught. Satan would love nothing more than for you to see him as a cartoon character with horns and a tail and pitchfork rather than the beautiful, seductive angel of light he is. Lucifer = angel of light. See the latin? Likewise, he'd love nothing more than for you to have a cartoon view of heaven and hell. You hit the nail on the head: it makes it easier to reject. I recommend CS Lewis's The Screwtape Letters.

Revelation does say the gates of heaven are carved each from a single pearl... but realize each type of jewel mentioned is symbolic. Pearls come from shellfish, a substance Jews aren't allowed to eat. The very gates are made from something they produce. To explain would get into some pretty deep theology and I won't if no ones interested.

Lucifer = angel of light.

So what you're saying is that Lucifer is a name created in Latin.....men invented Lucifer.    It's just an excuse of why we do bad things.

You know Jermeys pretty much on the right tract there.... to bring it down to the base belief its like this Man created religion so as he would not be terrified that he did not understand something, even today when you dont understand something... some ppl say only god knows... well thats an easy out.. basically. But hey this is just my opinion.

Adios.

That's what I've always been taught

Does that make it true and correct, though?

Revelation does say the gates of heaven are carved each from a single pearl... but realize each type of jewel mentioned is symbolic. Pearls come from shellfish, a substance Jews aren't allowed to eat. The very gates are made from something they produce. To explain would get into some pretty deep theology and I won't if no ones interested.

I'm interested. I love theology.

~Molly

So what you're saying is that Lucifer is a name created in Latin.....men invented Lucifer. It's just an excuse of why we do bad things

Men invented God as well... they are both on par.

My idea of Heaven is a warm day at the beach, floating on an inflated tyre, reading a book, and smoking a spliffo.

My idea of Hell is just being alone, total isolation.

That is all.

BAM!!!

Because it's impossible to have one without the other. It's like saying "Everything is big". Well that's impossible, because without something small, big means nothing.

This reasoning can only apply to our current state of consciousness.

OK, going to try this again...(still don't see and edit button anywhere although I was told in another post there is one)

Because it's impossible to have one without the other. It's like saying "Everything is big". Well that's impossible, because without something small, big means nothing.


This reasoning can only apply to our current state of consciousness.

OK, no more using the quote feature for me.

JeremyG said, "Because it's impossible to have one without the other. It's like saying "Everything is big". Well that's impossible, because without something small, big means nothing."

This reasoning can only apply to our current state of consciousness.

Maybe Heaven is being able to float around the cosmos learning and experiencing things beyond what we can fathom in our current state of being. I don't think I believe in Hell.

Jill... I think you are on to something

BAM!!!

It would be great to believe in only heaven, but on earth many people live in hell. If there is an eternity why would it be any different. As far as getting used to being deprived, that could happen and probably does. Hell isn't punishment, hell is a reality. If you live your life without God, then you will die in the same state. If you live your life with God then you will die in the same state. As far as I can see, the normal state of the world is like hell. Only occasionally do we arise to heaven on earth.

Most of the world goes to bed hungry and lives from hand to mouth. We in the rich world, don't see that sort of poverty, but the two thirds world does. In addition to poverty is war, disease, and every other kind of suffering.

To understand heaven and hell one would need to study the writings of the Bible. I have been actively studying for twenty-eight years. The Hebrew sha·ma´yim (always in the plural), which is rendered "heaven(s)," seems to have the basic sense of that which is high or lofty. As you know there are places beyond our atmosphere that we have no full knowledge of. However the Bible does speak of physical and spiritual heavens. It is in the siritual heavens ( a lofty position, being that He is superior to all else) God resides as well as His sprit sons or angels. The word heaven is also used in connection with govermental authority,the sky we see, and the space beyond what we can see without the aid of telescopes and the such.

As for the word hell, Webster's Dictionary says that the English word "hell" is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades. The Hebrew she'ohl´ and its Greek equivalent hai´des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind. Along with this Ecclesiastes 9: 5,10 says "The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going."

Interestingly enough the word, torment, used by the early English ment to restrain as in jailing.

So What is the purpose for life? Just take a look at your body. According to all researchers your body should not grow old, it keeps reproducing new cells every so many years. However they can not tell us why we grow old and die. The Bible says though that one of God's angelic sons forsook his position and thought himself deserving the praise from humans that belongs to God. First by decieving Eve and then by challenging that Job and all other humans would serve God not out of love but for material things, this one has put himself in a fatal position and will take anyone who will go with him. Psalms 37: 29 says "The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it." There will be no time for boredom as there is much to dicover on this earth and in the universe. Also God created dinosaurs and other extinct creatures, what else might He create for our enjoyment.

I stick by my "theory" I posted on your other topic about hell, Jill Life is what you make of it. Heaven can be right here in your life, while you're alive..and the same can be said about hell. Refer back to muggaz comments. Here is what you make of it.

OOooooo I wanna play I wanna play....

Consider this.....We were created for eternity. Our bodies original design was eternal...immortal. Many liberal scholars have criticize the Creator for placing the tree of life in the Garden in the first place. You must understand....the intention was the following:

1.) God desired that we trust His knowledge...which far exceeds that of man. The tree was there to gift man with Knowledge. God planned to endow us with knowledge at HIS discretion. The sin was disobedience. God commanded the first couple to NOT eat of the tree because He was going to grant it to them because of their obedience. Because they chose to take it.....they were disobedient and had to face the consequences. Instead of being in God's presence for all time, man chose to steal from God. They allowed their banner to be disobedience.

2.) Because of this, man is on a quest to re-attain paradise. The bible is the true story of how God interacts with man and ultimately saves him through a dramatic and personal act of becoming man Himself in the form of Jesus. How wonderful to have the King of Heaven exercise the ulitmate rescue mission! God has promised us that through the blood of His Son, we are promised the retention of Heaven.

3.) The Word of God itself says of Heaven: I Cor. 2:9--"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." The descriptions quoted above of Pearly gates and Hollywoods meager attempts are merely man trying to describe what he cannot.

4.) Lucifer is a name that is translated from texts as early as Isaiah in which Satan is called the "Lightbearer" who fell.

5.) I submit to you that if God is a fairy tale and we just live and die....then why is there SO MUCH attention given to such a small, tiny country like the "Chosen" Israel?


There are descriptions of Heaven in Revelation and Isaiah---
Isa.6
[1] In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
[2] Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
[3] And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
[4] And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
[5] Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

and in
Revelation 4

Want more????

Sherye, I just have to say, asking why eternity would be different than life on Earth struck me strange. I guess I am hoping death will bring a different level of conciousness. Nothing would then be the same in eternity. That is the only assumption that makes sense to me because trying to equate eternity with anything I already know just doesn't add up to possible.

Jeremy, there you go picking on me again. I said this:
"rather than the beautiful, seductive angel of light he is." Lucifer has the root word in latin for light in it. (Spanish, Light = Luz, plural, Luces.) It's not a made up word. It's a name. Hebrew names always described qualities of God and sometimes of the individual person. That's why God sometimes told people what they would name their child in certain verses. Names are very important. He is a beautiful angel of light. Not a pitchforked cartoon. But you got what I was saying.

"Man created religion so as he would not be terrified that he did not understand something," Wow this is a premise so many of you are running with and I don't understand how you got this. Did you get your idea God is made up all by yourself? What about your beliefs? Did no other person influence you whatsoever in this?

Mark Twain -- Samuel Clemmens, actually -- was brilliant. I know you may not realize it, but he was quite the philosopher. (Read his autobiography.) He stated in one book his opinion regarding this very premise using two characters. It runs like this:

No one has ever had an original idea in their lives; not a completely original idea. You run off of only what others have told you. You'd never get to calculous without having been told about algebra. You'd never get to blog without being told about the internet. You'd never write a poem without something else giving you an idea. You may only rearrange thoughts in new ways. All thoughts we have are the fruit of other thoughts remixed or empirical evidence, right? Can you name one idea you've had in the last year that wasn't inspired by something else or remixed from other ideas you were taught?

So where did the idea of God come from?

We had to be taught the idea. Who then will teach us. He can't be an original thought. There's no way. Yet he's been around since civilazations were exceedingly primitive in thought. Before power, motivations, and purposes were even examined. He's been there. Who taught us?

He did.

En passe, I could not resist interloping to contribute to this discussion. A few red herrings never hurt anyone, eh? Most everyone assumes the Bible teaches that the soul inherently possesses immortality, as Plato taught, and as many of the Church fathers supposed. The Biblical authors are not as clear in this regard. In 1 Tim. 6:16, Paul tells his eponymous recipient that "[Christ] only hath immortality," and to the Romans says that "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ," (v. 6:23). Jesus himself seems to indicate the body and soul of an infidel shall be 'destroyed in hell," (Matt. 10:28.)

If anyone can make a Biblical case for an instrinsically indestructible, eternal soul, please do.

En passe, I could not resist interloping to contribute to this discussion. A few red herrings never hurt anyone, eh? Most everyone assumes the Bible teaches that the soul inherently possesses immortality, as Plato taught, and as many of the Church fathers supposed. The Biblical authors are not as clear in this regard. In 1 Tim. 6:16, Paul tells his eponymous recipient that "[Christ] only hath immortality," and to the Romans says that "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ," (v. 6:23). Jesus himself seems to indicate the body and soul of an infidel shall be 'destroyed in hell," (Matt. 10:28.)

If anyone can make a Biblical case for an instrinsically indestructible, eternal soul, please do.

I think that Heaven is the day-to-day living in the realistic now with no illusions and an awareness of the universe around you and your place in it. Hell is separation from the truth and reality and the way things really are. People in hell can, and indeed do, look at people in Heaven daily. Remember Jesus saying "The kingdom is with in you"? There are plenty of people in prison or confined to wheelchairs that are quite happy while there are very healthy & wealthy folks who are not.

Heaven and hell are both the same thing, separated in the mind only by awareness of reality. In hell, awareness is only of things, which are slippery and deceptive -- even trees and rocks. In heaven, awareness is of the nature of mind and the ephemeral quality of things -- like a magician's trick. Going from hell to heaven entails the willingness and capability to look reality directly in the face. Stop, turn around, and cast your gaze sithin yourself toward the deepest seat of your own consciousness. Let go of expectations and hopes, good and evil, right and wrong, this and that, being and not-being. Then, heaven is realized in all its beauty.

D.

Right on! That's what I was trying to say.