JillUser JillUser

How Do You Define Heaven and Hell?

How Do You Define Heaven and Hell?

I used to think there was really only one outlook on Heaven and Hell. Heaven was the whole Pearly Gates scenario and Hell is the Fire and Brimstone scenario. I have always thought those deinitions were too simplistic to buy. I also fall short of grasping the concept of eternal bliss or eternal torture. I find it hard to think of anything I would want to do forever or anything that I think is bad enough to warrant eternal torture.

This leads me to wonder what other people regard as Heaven and Hell. Sherye mentioned that she thought that Heaven was being in God's presence and Hell is being deprived of Him. What is your take on the subject?

I tend to think that they are the ultimate in parental reward and punishment claims, i.e. if you behave we will get a toy (promising Heaven) or if you don't behave you are going to get a spank (threatening Hell). Heaven is the carrot some need and Hell is the stick others need. Maybe they are just stories to keep us in line.
6,655 views 50 replies
Reply #26 Top
Let's see....

Heaven would be like the ninth inning of a close baseball game.

Hell would be like visiting the immigration office or the DMV.

I do know that Warrant tells us that "Heaven isn't too far away."

Reply #27 Top

For some reason, this picture didn't come out right on my last post:

Reply #28 Top
D. Where do you get this stuff?

Mr. Mephisto... I'm working on a complete answer. Thanks for your insightful challenge! Wunderbar!
Reply #29 Top
Meph my man... got ya a first round here.

1 Tim 6:16 also says that "whom [Christ] no man has seen or can see," so a literal
approach is apparently out of the question.

1 Corinthians 15:54,55, 57 says, when we die and decompose, "this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, Where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? ... But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Also, Mr. Meph, if the soul is not immortal, how did Elijah (who was translated) and Moses appear with Jesus at the Transfiguration on the mountain? This verse also proves we recognize each other by our souls... they didn't have a photo of Moses to pull out of their wallets you know. And the psalms speak of our deep calling out to His deep. That's a soul.

Finally, we're made in His image. He's a trinity and we are too. Father (Soul) Son (Flesh) and Holy Spirit (Spirit).

and as for Hell... Jesus said the rich man would look up and see Lazarus in Abraham's arms in heaven and beg for Lazarus to touch his finger to one drop of water to cool his tounge. Sounds like he didn't just vaporize when he hit hell... But he had a front row view for heaven's happiness and rewards. Sounds like hell to me.
Reply #30 Top
Jill,
I don't mean that heaven and hell are the same as earth, but that just as there are both on earth, there would be both in eternity. If you've never read it, read C.S. Lewis' The Great Divorce. You will find his view of eternity refreshingly different. It also isn't very religious even though it is Christian. Another thing you shouldn't miss is the book on tape version of the Screwtape Letters. It is delightful.

The Christianity that most of us know is either stodgy or superficial. C.S. Lewis gave a picture of Christianity that was neither.
Reply #31 Top
This is one of the best discussions I've yet seen here. I am awestruck by the depthof thought so many have given this matter. I won't chime in as I am not ready to impart or add to this - yet. I am intrigued by one comment mainly, though not only, as several are quite insightful.

Shulamite: I have heard it said when one follows the 'kaballah' to enlightenment, one will come to a room with steps that appear as moving glass reflected, but if one says, "water, water" one sins and so loses. For it is in fact pure molecularly perfect marble, which would appear this way.

If your insight into the "pearl" line is on this vein, I would like to read more on it. I think someone else - 'Molly' - also said she'd like to read more on this line. I do hope you'll provide reference or guidance on this further.

This thread is so good, I may download it for future use in discussion and meditation on this topic. Thank you all and Blog ON.
Reply #32 Top
I believe that heaven and hell ... good and evil ..... eternal love ..are within us all. It is our choice to make of them what we will.
To blame others ..be they supposed higher powers is merely a cop out. People need to look for rewards and punishments in this life not the hereafter.
Reply #33 Top
It is commonly believed today that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the body. Jesus affirmed the Biblical truth that the dead "are conscious of nothing at all," that they are asleep, as it were. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-13) Life would be restored by means of a resurrection-'a standing up again' from the sleep of death. (John 5:28, 29) An immortal soul, if it existed, would need no resurrection, since immortality precludes death.

Jesus even demonstrated the Biblical teaching of the resurrection by raising people from the dead. Take the example of Lazarus, who was dead for four days. When Jesus resurrected him, Lazarus came out from the tomb a living, breathing human. No immortal soul slipped back from heavenly bliss into his body when Lazarus awoke from the dead. If that were the case, Jesus would hardly have done him a favor by resurrecting him!-John 11:39, 43, 44.

IT CAME about that as [Elijah and Elisha] were walking along, speaking as they walked, why, look! a fiery war chariot and fiery horses, and they proceeded to make a separation between them both; and Elijah went ascending in the windstorm to the heavens."-2 Kings 2:11.The term,heavens, sometimes applies to the spiritual dwelling place of God and his angelic sons. (Matthew 6:9; 18:10) "Heavens" may also denote the physical universe. (Deuteronomy 4:19) And the Bible uses this term to refer to earth's immediate atmosphere, where birds fly and winds blow.-Psalm 78:26; Matthew 6:26. Elijah was still on earth years later, for he wrote a letter to King Jehoram of Judah. (2 Chronicles 21:1, 12-15) Jesus Christ said "No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man," that is, Jesus himself. (John 3:13) The way to heavenly life was first opened up to imperfect humans after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ.-John 14:2, 3; Hebrews 9:24; 10:19, 20.
Reply #34 Top
I'm working on how to put this into words but I think that heaven and hell aren't places or things. Heaven and Hell is a state of mind. I'll post more when I can put it into proper words.
Reply #35 Top
Heaven: Breakfast Buffet
Hell: Flat tires and Broken Chain
Reply #36 Top
What an interesting discussion. It is nice to read something with insight from obviously educated people. I do not think about heaven or hell any more. I just live my life as it comes. I used to think about it when I was younger, but now it really does not matter. We believe what we have been taught.
Reply #37 Top
What an interesting discussion. It is nice to read something with insight from obviously educated people. I do not think about heaven or hell any more. I just live my life as it comes. I used to think about it when I was younger, but now it really does not matter. We believe what we have been taught.
Reply #38 Top
pegb2, I agree it is so nice that we have an insightful, educated and I believe entertaining discussion going on. You say we believe what we have been taught. My parents taught me to seek my own truths. So where does that leave me? That is why I wrote this. To find out what others believe. To try to see things through someone else's eyes.

Suspeckted, you crack me up!
Reply #39 Top
Well I'm glad you got a chuckle out of it. Forgive me, but Friday is usually my day reserved for sarcastic responses so I wanted to make sure I was making my quota. Well back to work, time to fight over the swings with 4 year olds.
Reply #40 Top
Hell for me would be Wahkonta Anethema with a slide show and unlimited time.

Heaven is actually living somewhere near the same state as my wife.
Reply #41 Top
I like the way you think greywar. Thanks for the light hearted comments.
Reply #42 Top
However my dear friend we are able to teach ourselves. I don't know your age but some parents did not see danger in letting a teething child to chew on painted surfaces. Now we know that there are hazards in this practice. Jesus said in John 17:3 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. So to take in this knowledge we must learn. Even a court official recognized that he needed to learn more about spiritual things.( see Acts 8:26-39)

We may unitentionaly have been taught things that are not true so follow the counsel at 1Thessalonians 5: 21 Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. If someone tells you something from the Bible make them show you the proof and research it until you are satisfied of what the truth is.
Reply #43 Top
dwill00484, how does anyone prove anything from the Bible? I surely haven't heard and successful proofs or disproofs yet.
Reply #44 Top
I will show you how to do research. I do apologize that I am running short on time today as I have a class to attend,however keep watching and I will be back. Hopefully you have a Bible and access to some sort of encyclopedia. It may be tommorrow before I can get back.
Reply #45 Top
Don't bother. Been there done that. My Bible is so marked up and dog eared you'd be surprised. You are fooling yourself. You can't prove anything. It is a matter of faith. If you have faith, then you see proof. If you don't, you see stories.
Reply #46 Top
First off to prove or disprove anything about the Bible we need to establish that it is a reliable source. When we studied history we saw that many people living in the fourteen hundreds thought the earth was flat. However turn to Isaiah 40:22. The book of Isaiah was written in the eighth century B.C.E. that was about 2200 years before these people were alive.
Also look at Job 26: 7. This text was written in the 15th century B.C.E.(which adds another seven hundred years before the fourteen hundreds) It reads: “[God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing.

So we can see its contents are scientifically sound on matters that human researchers discovered only at a later date. Also the fact that Job and Isaiah knew of these truths gives evidence that they were indeed inspired by a higher power, God.

There are many archeological findings that support the Bibles historical accuracy. This is just one example. The existence of King David was for many years found only in the writings of the Bible. In 1993 an inscription referring to the “House of David” was found in the ruins of the ancient Israelite city of Dan. The inscription was part of a shattered monument from the ninth century B.C.E., commemorating a victory over the Israelites by their enemy.
Events covered in the Bible are linked to specific people and dates. (1 Kings 14:25; Isaiah 36:1; Luke 3:1, 2) And whereas ancient historians nearly always exaggerated the victories of their rulers and hid their defeats and mistakes, the Bible writers were candid and honest-even about their own serious sins.-Numbers 20:7-13; 2 Samuel 12:7-14; 24:10

Professor William F. Albright, an archaeologist who spent decades excavating in Palestine, once said: “Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognition of the value of the Bible as a source of history.”


There are many prophecies that have been fulfilled in full detail. Remember use your reference material along with your Bible.

The fall of Babylon.
Isaiah and Jeremiah both foretold Babylon’s fall to the Medes and the Persians. Remarkably, Isaiah’s prophecy about this event was recorded some 200 years before Babylon was conquered! The following aspects of prophecy are now matters of historical record: the drying up of the Euphrates River by diverting its waters to an artificial lake (Isaiah 44:27; Jeremiah 50:38); a careless lack of security at Babylon’s river gates (Isaiah 45:1); and the conquest by a ruler named Cyrus.—Isaiah 44:28.

The Hebrew Scriptures contain scores of prophecies fulfilled in the birth, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus. For example, more than 700 years in advance, Micah foretold that the Messiah, or Christ, would be born in Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2; Luke 2:4-7) Micah’s contemporary Isaiah foretold that the Messiah would be struck and spit upon. (Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 26:67) Five hundred years in advance, Zechariah prophesied that the Messiah would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:15) More than a thousand years beforehand, David foretold circumstances associated with the death of Jesus the Messiah. (Psalm 22:7, 8, 18; Matthew 27:35, 39-43) And some five centuries in advance, Daniel’s prophecy revealed when the Messiah would appear as well as the length of his ministry and the time of his death. (Daniel 9:24-27) This is just a sampling of the prophecies fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Why does any of this matter to us? Because God has promised that we can have what Adam and Eve lost. Yes He said through Isaiah (Isaiah 55: 10,11) that His purpose for man and the earth will never change. Everlasting life on a paradise earth will be delightful. “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29) “The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron.”—Isaiah 35:1.

This has not even scratched the surface of the valuable knowledge found in God's word the Bible. Remember that knowledge is the key to everlasting life on a peaceful earth. There will be no hunger, no sickness, no sorrow, no pain and even the wild animals will be at peace with mankind. (Rev. 21:3,4)


Reply #47 Top
I truly believe that we are in "Hell" and that when a good hearted man/woman of god passes, they will rise to the heavens, and others will stay here and rot.
...sounds "movie oreinted" but that is how I feel.
Reply #48 Top
I don't think that sounds "movie oriented" at all.  Sounds like as good of a theory as any.
Reply #49 Top
Could Lucifer the lightbearer who fell from heaven not be what we have named him as the devil or satan...but an alien creature who did wicked things to man and therefore was given the title of lord of evil?
Reply #50 Top
The Crusaders, now that sounds "movie oriented"!