I'll admit, I've been more than an ass on this thread. More often than not, I find no better way to counter ideologues whose concepts I find spurious, but I should probably control myself more often.

I've often heard it said that "those who know the least argue the most passionately". I'll be the first to admit I've not any children, so perhaps my viewpoint can be seen as "childish" in and of itself. But I can't abide people trying to force their ideals on others. I agree with much of the sentiment on KFC and Lula's side, but personal choice is key (something I'm sure you can understand as a Libertarian). I'm not going to force myself and my beliefs on anyone else.

the only people i can see in this chat trying to force their ideas on anyone is the school board

Danielost posts:

BINGO! and ABSOLUTELY right on!      

SC Posts:

A couple of things...

Call me whatever, but I don't see either myself or KFC as trying to force our beliefs, morals or ideals upon anyone in this discussion. We have a set of core beliefs that form our opinion and thinking on this particular matter...and that's what we lay out for all to consider or not. It has also got to count for something that we have x amount of knowledge given we are parents, as DrG pointed out.

I truly believe that one day when your own little ones come along in your life, SC, you'll think long and hard about which way to go when you are in the driver's seat making decisions for their health and welfare.

We (slightly!) older ones have the advantage of age, experience and traveling on the bumpy road a little longer than you and for those reasons alone, whether you take or reject what we say, at least you have the benefit of having heard them.

I read that a survey was taken and the majority polled said they agree that it's OK for society and government to be doling out prescription birth control drugs and other devices to 11, 12 and 13 year old children. So, this is a very significant topic and unless it was a very biased survey, it seems that KFC and I are in the minority on this...(as we seem to be on this thread).

Hannity is supposed to have a segment about it this Sunday.

Hannity is a hack who relies on sensationalism and ad hominem attacks, devoid of substance.

a truly liberal response to anyone who has a different point of view than their own.

Well, give the show a look and we can debate whether Hannity's segment on government schools doling out contraceptives to middle school age children is for sensationalism or addresses the substance to the issue at hand.

"But I can't abide people trying to force their ideals on others."

Then I guess you won't be worried about your children complying with the laws of majority setup by, "the people", for "the people", of "the people". It is all about people, about the greater good and about the one who are impacted directly.

Children should not be encouraged or enabled by the government to be having sex. Especially when, if they do, they are subject to underage sex laws, and the reality of life underage "CHILDREN" are ill equipped to handle.

I bolded the irony in Dan's response. One the one hand, we send a child to prison for 10 years for basically doing what the government is implicity condoning with their policies of birth control. On the other, we (the government) "enable" those illegal liasons to go on and even encourage them with the policy of free birth control.

And I am sure we all will be shocked when some judge rules the law to be in contradiction to stated government policy and either over turns the law, or outlaws the government practice. Or both

Hey, Dr perhaps you haven't read the previous 178 posts. There is no irony, the thread is about the outrage about government getting involved in the wrong way by providing birth control to children.

There are some, though few in here, namely Whip who think it's a good idea for children, who are unable to comprehend the consequences of life altering decisions as well as risks that come with sex, to be forced or at least given access to birth control so that they don't accidentally get pregnant.

Never mind that birth control does fail, and doesn't prevent STD's or the emotional/physical issues kids deal with when they have sex too early.

The government only implicitly condoned the policy of birth control because these morons on the school admin thought it would be a good idea for the "at risk kids".

I had. The "we" in my statements are the royal we, meaning America in general, not most of the posters here.

Don't have sex.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, here's your birth control, condoms, and other sexual paraphenilia. Here's an instructional video, just in case you want to but you don't know how. But don't have sex.

HAHAHA lots of truth in there.

What we got in sex ed was. SEX BAD-HERPES AIDS GRRRR!

Or something like that.

~Zoo

Really? In our school the kids had buckets of condoms to pick from including flavored ones. In fact, they were ENCOURAGED to taste test them.

How's that for instruction? Got it on video for proof. Heads rolled but not far enough.

"todays parents allow their kids to get away with things that their parents wouldn't let them get away with." Socrates(yes i know i messed up the spelling. and the quote may not be exact but close enough.)

Sex Ed, Planned Parenthood style circa 1979. We had an assembly where the local Planned Parenthood gave a lecture and demonstration about birth control. It was 1 hour a day for two days. The first hour was a lecture on basic anatomy and function, complete with stats on unplanned pregnancy, abortions and STDs among high school students in the state of Florida.

The second day was a few films. The last film was about different forms of birth control. Nope, not demonstrated on a banana or a broomstick, and female contraception wasn't demonstrated on a manniquin. In the film condomes were unrolled over fully erect actual penises, using different sizes (I guess they wanted to make sure no sized guy felt left out). For the women, there were diaphragms and spermacidal foam insertions... once again, I guess they didn't want to leave anyone out because they showed a few different sized women inserting the stuff.

The "class" was supposed to be done in all the schools in Pinellas County. There were so many complaints from students and faculty that the program was cancelled.

"I had. The "we" in my statements are the royal we"

Is that a real expression, Royal we, or is that from "The Big Lebowski"? Cause that's the only place I've seen it, and I think it's hilarious.

"Don't have sex.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, here's your birth control, condoms, and other sexual paraphenilia. Here's an instructional video, just in case you want to but you don't know how. But don't have sex."

Not exactly the message of consistency we want underage kids to have is it?

"Really? In our school the kids had buckets of condoms to pick from including flavored ones. In fact, they were ENCOURAGED to taste test them.
How's that for instruction? Got it on video for proof. Heads rolled but not far enough."

I don't think sex education, and passing out birth control means is quite the same thing. At least when I was in school it wasn't.

I think it originated with the old Monarchies. When the king was it. (L'Etat c'est moi) Now, the "we" (when used in context) is for the people, but called the "Royal we". In the case of the post, I meant it as Americans in general, not Dan, Ted, KFC and I.

Never heard it before. Cool, thanks.

this was on the factor tonight.


if your 12 year old daughter doesn't have sex regularly she will have eating disorders.

The only thing I can figure is that Planned Parenthood is in kahoots with wacko psychologists and there both in it for the money!

this study was supposedly funded by the government.

Great use of tax payer money

The same organization is probably already recieving federal funds that will lead to the "study" that will disprove these findings in 5-10 years. ;~D