The private Beta 5 rumour

from Sins Forums
I have participated in the Beta process since June, but I have rarely posted on the Forum. I believe that I belong to a "silent majority" of pre-order customers who simply do not have the time to play a lot and to post expert analyses -- on the sophisticated level of the forum regulars who have played a lot of Sins games (no sarcasm intended).

I can consequently understand why some IC and SD policy-makers might not be enthusiastic about letting "us" (the members of the silent majority of casual gamers) experience a pre-release Beta 5.

On the other hand, do IC and SC intend to limit their sales to a few dozens of MP/RTS fanatics and forum experts ?

I have already paid with my June pre-order, but I have friends who would perhaps purchase the final game if I issued a recommendation. SD marketing must consider that they need to sell tens of thousands of copies of the game. Having a select and elite "private Beta 5", in that commercial context, does not seem to make (business) sense.

Why keep it restricted and secret ? If Beta 5 was public, the forum experts and the IC/SD buddies would still have the possibility to have a special access to the main IC/SD policy-makers, who would consider their reports and suggestions as the cream of the crop -- but IC and SD would also have "more eyes" to catch bugs and more PC-configurations to test the pre-gold-master version on.

Also, and perhaps more importantly, it would be smart marketing diplomacy to include the "silent majority" which has already paid. I agree that we do not have a God-given right to get our hands on that Beta 5 just because we have pre-ordered, but excluding the majority of customers who have already paid does not seem to be a smart business move. As I have stated, even though most of us do not play that much and do not post on the Forum, we can recommend the purchase of the final, retail product to family members and friends.

I humbly understand that IC and SD do not need to have my non-expert opinions on Beta 5, but if they want to sell tens of thousands of copies, what would it cost them to allow the "silent majority" of the pre-order customers to play at Beta 5 ? We might not be MP/RTS fanatics and forum regulars, but we do possess a power to influence the Market.

For example, I teach to 160 students (age 18 to 20) per semester (320 per year !), and I sometimes talk about PC games to relax the atmosphere of my classes. I have recently recommended HMM5/TOE, and some of my students went out and bought the stand-alone expansion because I issued a very enthusiastic recommendation.

Some of you have become very chummy with the key IC and SD policy-makers (no sarcasm intended) : well, good for you if they let you have the privilege of having fun with Beta 5. But I wonder how many thousands of copies of Sins those few IC/SD buddies can sell ...
95,425 views 60 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I must admit, I stand in awe of how many people are throwing fits...

Over an unconfirmed rumor. (Unless chat logs are posted, I don't think that simply having "heard something over IRC" counts as confirmation...)
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Beta 5 would be more of a concepts than anything, seeing players like certain features.

And it would be better to keep it private to a mature few, it's likely to be unbalanced and it wouldn't look good if alot of 5 year olds started screaming OMG WTF SINS IS UNBALANCED IM LEAVIN U NOOB.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Well, i'd love to try out the Beta 5, why? Waiting for this game for so long, i rly don't intend to just leave

I haven't had too much time in the past days to post my thoughts about beta 4, but i'm keeping a list of my observations. So i'll probably post them in the near future.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
THE BETA 5 IS A LIE.

THERE IS NO LIST.

I REALLY DON'T KNOW.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
WOW! YOU REALLY DID NOT NEED TO CREATE NEW TOPIC ABOUT THIS!
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
the thing is, mature or otherwise there have been only a few of us (cough) who have continuously been "in" on the development process, including people who have no time to get into lengthy debates about what works/doesnt will not help IC whatsoever. what they need is what they have, a bunch of bickering bastards.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Hehehehe... or is there?

:O

And if there is, deal with it

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Difficult to know one way or the other until we hear from IC, I just hope good sense prevails and I will give them the benefit of the doubt until we hear otherwise. As Ron quite rightly points out its all rumour atm so no point getting upset about it.

Good post btw, deal with it by making your feeling known nothing wrong with that.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
To officially create a special private beta group would fly smack in the face of established game development practices for SD and to a lessor extent IG. It is this unique approach to creating games that has garnered such rabid support from fans for these companies and has lead to exceptionally well developed releases and critical review. I highly doubt this policy would change any time soon. The policy is akin to life blood for SD in my opinion. If anything a group of hardcore players might get together with some devs for "unofficial" test games and that would likely be the extent of it methinks.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
i don't think IC and SD will make one beta private if all the rest have been public, wouldn't make much sense
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Beta 5 doesn't exist. It is just as the OP title suggests. It is just a RUMOR. lets move on to testing what we have.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
hey, we have a hearsay confirmation from Yarlen (thru thrawn), thrawn hasnt blatently lied recently... so...
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

hey, we have a hearsay confirmation from Yarlen (thru thrawn), thrawn hasnt blatently lied recently... so...
End of quote


I'M NOT A LIAR! THANK YOU SCHEM FOR REALIZING THIS! YOU REALIZE THIS BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN ME, AND KNOW ME SORTA WELL! AKA YOU'RE NOT A NEWB!

What happened was some other admin on SDC mentioned it and so I bugged Yarlen about it and he said he had the list but hadn't looked at it (I belive eet was there too, that or Multi or TGE! So ask them or...) Ask Yarlen when he gets back.

NEWBS GO BURN!


WOW! YOU REALLY DID NOT NEED TO CREATE NEW TOPIC ABOUT THIS!
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" "
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
did he mention if I was there?
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

did he mention if I was there?
End of quote


I forget who else was there. Some non admin was commenting on it with me...

EDIT: oh wait you mean on the list don't you...
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Thrawn, stop acting like an immature kid; no one's laughing. How is 'newb' a joke?
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
windex everyone here just called thrawn an outright lier, he has a bit of license to be miffed. you're compounding it by (unfairly) insulting him.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Until there's an official announcement posted by SD/IC either on the forums or the news section, it's a rumor.

The more you point to Yarlen and scream "HE SAID THIS ON IRC", the less inclined he (or anyone else from SD/IC) will be to actually get on IRC and chat with testers, or give us hints/little bit of inside info. Is that what everyone really wants? Part of what makes this beta testing community so awesome is that the Stardockians and the Ironcladians (thanks, kryo! ) are very talkative and we have great direct communication between the tester group and the SD/dev group.

When stuff like this happens, it makes the official folk start questioning if it's really worth it to be so open with us testers. If one comment from IRC (and an unconfirmed rumor, no less!) can degenerate into this soap opera fest, why should they bother tell us anything at all?

Honestly, people. We're not children here. Even if there is a beta 5 and it's private, what's the big deal? Are we going to start screaming bloody murder at Stardock/Ironclad because some people might (and I emphasize MIGHT) get to see a little more of the game before its release in a mere 74 days? If the SD/IC folk feel the need to let a few people in on some extra testing, that's fine in my book. Especially considering how the forums degenerated after the Vasari were released, I wouldn't blame them at all if they just selected a few people they know would actually help them test instead of whine and complain without offering any useful feedback.

In short, let it go. Thrawn, stop speaking for Yarlen and pointing fingers at him. You're already putting him and everyone else you mentioned in uncomfortable positions because now everyone and their dog can start bugging them with "IS IT REALLY TRUE?" questions, which I'm pretty sure they don't want or need. If SD/IC wants us to know something, they tell us. It's as easy as that. And getting pissy because of a rumor and some misguided sense of entitlement doesn't serve the beta test in the slightest.

Flame on if you so desire, but I don't need to post anything more than I already have.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
wow...

Very well said Annatar
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
A+

Thrawn's still a kid.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
the only problem I have with this thread is the incessant whining and suspicious flaming.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Thrawn, stop acting like an immature kid; no one's laughing. How is 'newb' a joke?
End of quote


Stop acting like your some super mature person... freshmen. Please, talking about raping animals on SDC and then coming here and being like "I there! I'm the symbol of perfectionism and Thrawn's a stupid immature kid who's older than me!"

Honestly, people. We're not children here. Even if there is a beta 5 and it's private, what's the big deal? Are we going to start screaming bloody murder at Stardock/Ironclad because some people might (and I emphasize MIGHT) get to see a little more of the game before its release in a mere 74 days?
End of quote


Refer too...


WOW! YOU REALLY DID NOT NEED TO CREATE NEW TOPIC ABOUT THIS!
End of quote


In short, let it go. Thrawn, stop speaking for Yarlen and pointing fingers at him.
End of quote


I would ask for him to get on here and just post a "Yes, no, maybe" or "STFU" quickly and leave. Honestly, I'm done with these forums. I'm just gonna report bugs, assuming I find any that haven't been reported.

Go #### yourself freshmen (aka Snowman, Windowexglow)
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
*clap*

*clap*

Wow, stunning theatre here. The claps are sarcastic
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
windex everyone here just called thrawn an outright lier, he has a bit of license to be miffed. you're compounding it by (unfairly) insulting him.
End of quote


I didn't; I simply said that a report from a chat without even a chatlog didn't count as confirmed. I didn't say he was lying, but maybe Yarlen was making a joke Thrawn missed. Without something beyond his word, it doesn't count as confirmed. (Even though I happen to believe Thrawn completely, its not confirmed without that extra).

And, as I think Annatar has further pointed out, information handed out on the chat channel isn't really all that "locked" anyway -- by its very nature, chat is quicker and less accurate than forums (not because they lie, but because they don't have the time to re-read what they're posting and get double-checked on announcements...).

Again, I'm not calling anyone a liar, but without an announcement of some kind, its not confirmed.
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
I really do not care.
Beta5 is likely to be the pre-gold game with a lot of bug fixing and reporting to do.
Basically, professional style troubleshooting, hours of regimented reporting.
I do not think it will be about gameplay decisions and balance, or just aimless fun. Real BETA testing does not involve playing the game and stumbling upon something. It involves getting an allocated task to check and doing things repeatedly in that area to see if you can break it. Documenting everything leading to the crash, just in case you need to prove why it broke.
SOSE dev team would be absolutely right to have an in-house final beta with a few dedicated fans. It makes business sense to leverage the people with the hours to do this.
If they called it pre-gold and got them to sign non-disclosures would you be ok?
If they told you, you could only play with docking routines on one capital ship, would that be ok?

I have been part of in-house beta testing teams before as a dedicated fan (not having to pre-order, and the games having no open beta) and it is not all fun. Its time consuming in the extreme.
If you have no time now, how do you prove to the devs you will have later?

Its like saying that you will get a degree if they give you a job.

Did the pre-order agreement guarantee all BETAs including in-house?