I have to agree with Teri, while i understand your anger at being "Left out.", i think your threats are far from productive Xototl.

I have just now purchased galciv and the altarian prophecy, by the time the cds arrive the website will probably be public and any chance i had to influence development, or whatever it is those privaliged enough to be allowed entry into the site get, will be over.

Yet im not complaining, whats the point, as Teri said earlier stardock have provided a ridiculous level of support compared to most devs, and as someone else that got burned by the pile of s**t that was MOO3 i can appreciate that.

So all i can say is calm down!

Its only a short wait and do you really want to get this aggravated over such a little thing when you take into account all of the entertainment that you have gotten out of galciv?

As far as not purchasing galciv 2 is concerned, surely you recognise the sorry state of the 4x genre, while not as bad as my beloved space sims its still far from being the most popular game type, and if you are willing to miss what could be one of the best 4x games in the last few years just becuase of a short term marketing ploy you just might end up cutting of your nose to spite your face.

Anyway, this post has gone on long enough and im starting to sound like an annoying fanboy so ill leave it at that.

Yep, not even good enough to use as a drink coaster..

Thanks for your support.

I think many of the newer users don't know much of the "what has gone on before". 

Galactic Civilizations was originally released in March of 2002.  Upon release we released a free "Bonus Pak" which added a bunch of features.  We then did monthly updates to the game that incorporated scores of changes into the game based on player feedback.

Mind you, we didn't need to do this. The game won editor's choice awards from most of the major game magazines *out of the box* and the game wasn't buggy by anyone's measure so these updates were almost purely about supporting customers.

That August, we released a free expansion pack called "Expanded Universe" which added tons of additional features.

Despite all this, our publisher, Strategy First, fell on hard financial times. Despite the game being a huge hit at retail, they were unable to pay us most of the royalties we've earned.  So in essence, if you bought the game at the store, odds are, we didn't get paid for it.  We're still hoping to collect on these royalties eventually but that's where we stand now.

What made Galactic Civilizations II possible was Altarian Prophecy, TotalGaming.net and direct sales of GalCiv. We have not made a distinction over whether someone purchased the game at retail or directly (even though our system could allow us to do that).  We also don't include any copy protection on the CD. Instead, we ask that users put in their info when they receive one of our free updates to the game. I think that's a pretty fair trade off.

So when the decision came to put up the GalCiv2.com website, we wanted to start with the Altarian Prophecy users both as a reward as well as a way of getting early suggestions from users who were already familiar with the latest/greatest features of the game (lest we get a bunch of "You know what would be nice? Custom maps!" type suggestions).

When GalCiv2.com is ready (the current site is based on the TotalGaming.net template, it's not its own unique site yet) we will have it available next to those who pre-order GalCiv2 and then eventually everyone.

what do you expect? the whole thing on eb costs 29.99 and here costs 60 dollars. where in the world is downloading costing double the cost of buying the product？When I get all of the money as you said it should cost even less like 20 dollars or something. That's why stardock is a bit stingy, it's prices are too high.

That makes a good argument that we should only let users who buy direct see the GalCiv2.com website then doesn't it? So instead of complaining that we're only letting altarian prophecy buyers (retail or not) see it maybe we could be given a little credit for not distinguishing between people who bought it direct versus people who buy it at retail.

 

Not one person here has yet mentioned the fabulous benefit of the mod's. Stardock has enabled its users to Modify the game and post thier Mod's on thier own site!

Thanks to all who have added to my enjoyment of an already great game!!!

Brad, I applaud you and your entire staff on creating a TRULY user friendly atmosphere here! WTG STARDOCK!!! As to the release of GCII, and the whole TGN thing, all I can say is...it's worth the subscription NOW, let alone when GCII is available.

Keep up the great work, and Happy Holidays to you and your entire staff!

Not true when one looks at the big picture. This game has lived on my hard drive for over a year and I have played it consistently. Very few other games hold my interest for as long as GalCiv has and still does. For the many, many hours of enjoyment I have had the cost is quite low.

Did you bother to read post #28 from Frogboy? If you did you would understand why I, and many other fans, buy directly from Stardock and no where else. I originally bought GalCiv at a retail store to save a buck. I then found what a great game it is and discovered the amazing support. I then saw how Stardock was not getting the money owed to them. I want Stardock to stay alive. I want Stardock to continue making the wonderful products they make (I also have Windowblinds). Too many software companies go belly up each year. I firmly believe Stardock is on the leading edge of a new trend with their electronic delivery systems via stardock central and I want them to make it and to help I buy their products.

I have pre-ordered GalCiv2 also. I could care less what retail it may have down the road. I like Stardock, I like their products, and, as such, I am willing (more than) to pay the price they ask.

I saw earlier where someone mentioned Space Empires V. I can guarantee it will cost the same or more when it is released (SEIV is still $44.95) and it is not the same style of game at all. Much, much more micromanagement. And it is not offered in retail stores either.

Y'all do what you want, but as for me, and probably many others, I'm sticking with Stardock.

I think it's also very important to stress that Galciv is still in developemnt and will be for months.

There will be plenty of time for all to make suggestions and have their feedback on the game. As GC1 has shown, Stardock implement ideas and suggestions from the beta stage and this is not just a bug fix stage(unlike many other companies). The beta hasn't even started yet. GC1 beta started in january 2002 (well the alpha did i recall) and the game wasn't released till March 2003. So Stardock have shown that they will spend plenty of beta testing time if required.

So if someone only has GC1 and does not yet have access to the gamesite, don't worry. You may be feeling a bit left out at the moment, but you are appreciated and your views will be as well. There will be plenty of time for your valuable inputs and plenty of time for Stardock to implement changes and improvements before the game is released.

Paul.
~SDC~
[Message Edited]

so we should buy from stardock directly now for a ridiculous price? sounds like people owe the developer some how.

wow! you are even thinking about that, stingy is the perfect word to use when discribing companies like you.

For the many hours of enjoyment I have received from playing this game, indeed I do owe Stardock!



If Stardock is so bad to you maybe you should reconsider any purchases of their products.

I think we can all agree this has become Troll central. These people are abviously just trying to stir the pot.

Agreed. I realized that too late... :notsure:

If no one bites, they will go fish elsewhere. LOL

dsjdsj, go away.

LOL LOL

WTG Frogboy!

LOL

Terl... I disagree about my "ranting". I think I've been pretty courteous about the entire thing.

I don't dispute the fact that Stardock can do as they see fit. It's their game, their site. I never said otherwise.

I was simply expressing my displeasure and opinion. As a customer who bought their product, I am entitled to that, right?

Apparently, those with different opinions and ideas are not welcome. So be it.

Ah, I see. Now I'm a troll, trying to "stir the pot".

(although I will admit that I'm a little surprised that Terl believes that he owes Stardock for the privilege of buying GalCiv. It's a pretty darn good game, but... wow...)

Xoxotl, I don't think the troll references are directed at you, just the tenor of the posts the last few pages. As to the Question posted on the thread "GalCiv 2 = AP owners only?", I can only say what you've already stated...it's thier company, and they can run it as they choose to.

I defense of Stardocks position, I must say that the value of the TGN subscription (through which I was able to get AP, at no additional charge) is well worth it. They currently have 13 games available to download, and while that's more than I have time to play, the 3 I do have (if you consider an average price of $30 per title retail) covers the cost of the subscription. So value-wise, for me, that's about an even split. However, I have the option to get the other 10 titles if I want (let's just call that $100 value to err far in the conservative direction). That alone from a dollars perspective is a no brainer. "But wait", as Ron Popeil would say, "there's more!"

Stardock has great customer support, IMHO, and has proven its loyalty to its fans by not only the accessibility of the staff, and it's continous commitment to upgrading an already great game, but also by providing these great fourms where users like us can gripe, complement, or enjoy the MV community.

In addition, your TGN subscription allows you access to all games developed/released during the term of your one year subscription. This means (if I understand correctly, and I hope that if I'm wrong someone quickly corrects me) that when GalCavII is released, if my TGN subscription is current, all I have to do is download it from Stardock Central and play.

Now if all that isn't enough to sell you on the value of a TGN subscription, let's put the proverbial cherry on top. Access to the GCII site, info/input on the game itself and...the option to Beta test GCII.

Granted, I'm speaking from the point of already KNOWING what TGN has to offer. As I pointed out earlier, the 3 games I've downloaded: GC (updates only), AP, and Political Machine were worth the cost of the subscription alone. I see the rest as a bonus, and a really BIG one at that.

EDIT: If any of the above information is incorrect, it is due to the ignorance of myself, and I hope Cari or Brad will explain/elaborate if so.
[Message Edited]

Nope, the references were not toward you but to dsdsj. Sorry if that was not clear.

No, I do not believe I "owe" Stardock. I do know that when I buy one of their products I receive better support than most companies even think of offering. What I do though is buy directly from them so that the profit goes to them and is not delayed by a financially troubled publisher.

Ah, okay. No problem.

Well, I've read all your replies, and I really have nothing else to say on the matter.

I think this thread is pretty much done, unless anybody else had something (constructive) to say.

"Stardock's restricting the GalCiv2 site to AP and TG subscribers is Nazi-esque!"*

(* - No, not really, just trying to invoke Godwin's law to kill the thread)

This is why pepole are yelling at you dsj. You aren't listening. If you bought GalCiv Deluxe at a store, you're not Stardock's customer. You're Strategy First's customer. Stardock hasn't gotten paid for most retail purchases of the original game, let alone this "deluxe" version that's out now.

Stardock doesn't owe you anything. Not a cent of your money went to them.

The reason why so many of us love Stardock is that even despite all they've gone through they still treat all GalCiv users as if they were customers no matter how they purchased it. They could have just said "Go to strategyfirst.com for your needs" but they didn't, they let all users benefit from the same updates and the same features.

But even though they've given this great support, you still call them "stingy". And why? Because they want to reward the people who bought Altarian Prophecy with a sneak peek at the new game a bit earlier than everyone else?

Unless you bought the game from Stardock you aren't their customer. You're Strategy First's customer. Stardock still treats you as a customer - good for them - but don't act like they somehow owe you. They don't.

Goodwin's Law doesn't even stipulate anything but pure (and accurate, if only as a truism) statistics.

The actual Law is simply, 'as a thread's length increases, the odds that someone will be compared to Hitler or the German Nazi party will approach 1.' This is true simply because the odds of this occurance cannot decrease over time except in isolated groups (or stringently moderated groups).

Everything else is simply certain isolated groups' tradidtion, that incidentally, was started by alt.troll, when it got into a flamewar with another troll group (although I can't recall which now). Intentionally attempting to invoke that corrilary to Goodwin's Law is essentially accusing yourself of being a troll.

~SDC~

I don't believe I've ever posted before, but I'm a little offended at the "johnny-come-latelys" and the criticism of Stardock. When Frogboy mentioned the 2002 release of GalCiv, he was referring to the *Windows* version. The OS/2 version was released years earlier.

I could be wrong, but I believe I've purchased about 80 percent of everything Stardock has written. This is about the finest software company on the planet. I don't resent any "look ahead" or anything else they give away, even if I don't qualify. Stardock newbies who weren't around in the OS/2 days, don't know how IBM forced Stardock to "take one up the shorts" on OS/2.

When the company I worked for went to Exchange server, forcing me to replace my OS/2 desktop with Windows "NiceTry", Stardock was there with Object Desktop to give me some of the functionality I had with OS/2. They kept me from shooting myself.

After that experience, I am grateful that Stardock is willing to throw any bones in my direction. I don't give a rat's butt about you whiners, but I've been around computers(all kinds) longer than probably all of you and have worked for software vendors, and there is no software company on the planet that is more "customer-oriented" than this one.

My hat is off to everyone at Stardock.

~SDC~