Teaching Our Children

First!

Yes, we do need to teach our kids what is important to us. I've never understood the whole, "I won't teach my kids any religion, when they get old enough they'll make up their own minds". To me, the lesson the kids get from that is, the parents don't think religious beliefs are important. We wouldn't say, "I won't teach my kids personal hygiene, when they get old enough, they'll make up their own minds".

The problem today is, the schools want to teach kids that what their parents do is wrong. That isn't the job of the schools and no parent should put up with it.

I teach my son the colors. I tell him trees are trees, I tell him snow is snow, I tell him all sorts of things. I'm indoctrinating him into the English language. He could have thought for himself and came up with different ways of expressing all those things (no doubt he has anyway!) but I want him to learn English, because I'm evil.

I also teach him about God and Jesus, and we pray together. Why? Because it's as true as a tree being a tree, or snow being snow. So why wouldn't I tell my son the truth? Because YOU are not sure it's the truth? Because someday HE might not be sure it's the truth? That doesn't change the truth. And I won't feel bad at all raising my son with this knowledge.

As if kids don't grow up and start to think for themselves anyway. How many children run away from God, from the church, from their parents? How many fail to realize how true it all is and what it really means? I know I was raised going to church, but it didn't faze me at all. I know I still fail to grasp the reality of prayer. I know I still fail to grasp the full reality of God, of what Jesus did for us. One might never be able to fully understand.

Maybe if I start my sons off on the right path, someday he'll understand a lot more than I do.

Of course Ock, I see your point.  We have to brainwash...err...teach our kids all about our values and ways of seeing the world.  I mean, if they don't turn into little versions of us with all our viewpoints and outlooks on life, then I think as parents, we have failed.

These kids don't need to decide for themselves, that's too hard.  We've spent time deciding things, I think the nicest thing we could do is instill in them everything we think we know.

I mean, we've got all the answers, and they got us this far...why give them the chance to follow their own way? They might screw up and learn something new.  *psh*  I'll have none of that.

~Zoo

Zoo:

How does teaching our own kids keep them from thinking for themselves?

Depends on how and what you teach.

There's a difference between actual teaching and...well...brainwashing.

If a teacher is good and fair, then the child learns to think. If the teacher is bad or let's say has an agenda to push, then the child does not think, but merely parrots what it has been told.

~Zoo

Nice article.

Ok, to be honest...I'm not being fair here.  There's a hidden message.  Literally hidden.  Can you find it?

There's a hint in the first response which is mine.  (Which is why I placed it there)

Well, there was a hidden message.   Like visibily hidden.  Haha!

I  didn't even notice 'til I went back to check...I thought the tone of your article said it all...guess I got the hidden meaning without reading the hidden part.

~Zoo

Ah Ock, then I see you are one of those who don't care what your kids are brought up with, as long as you don't have to teach it to them.

If you don't teach your kids what matters to you, all you have taught them is that nothing matters to you.


Kids will grow up and decide for themselves what they want, teaching your kids doesn't change that. If fact, no matter what you "tell" your kids, your actions will teach them anyway. If you teach your kids to go to church by dropping them off every week, you have taught them that church is only for kids. If you tell your kids that doing homework is important, but never help them when they need it, you are teaching them that homework really doesn't matter.

It is not only the right of every parent to pass their beliefs about life on to their kids, it is the parents' responsibility... and yes, that means atheism too.

I think one of the reason so many kids today don't respect anyone but themselves is they are being raised by parents who teach them exactly that.


~~~

I will add though, the "Fear" aspect of your article did seem awful heavy handed.

That's a really poor assumption Ted.  Care to try again?

I saw the hidden message before I posted.

Ock, how long are your kids going to do harm before they think for themselves that they should do no harm?

Good ol' Peppers.

Teaching is fine. If you sit the kid down and say, this is what I view as right and wrong, this is my philosophy, this is my religion. Do you have any questions? Would you like me to teach you about these things? Or maybe a more informal environment when you're walking around with your kid and you decide to share some of your wisdom. That's not a bad thing.

Also, teaching your kids the basics...speech, how to walk, how to tie their shoes, etc. It's all good stuff.


The problem I see Ock having is telling kids what to believe without giving any support or letting them have any reasoning to it.

Let's take racism for example.
"Blacks are bad people."
"Why?"
"They're just bad people."

Rinse and repeat with variations and not so wholesome language and you succeed in turning an innocent child into a racist. Kids tend to trust the adults that they're around...so whatever they say often becomes law...at least when they're really young. While teaching them right and wrong is cool and all, but pushing other junk into their heads that doesn't make sense to them when they're that young is basically training them to become tiny versions of you, not their own person. That could mess up a kid later in life when they have to confront the world and make their own choices and decisions. At that point it's not what Mommy or Daddy thinks is right, it's what I think is right...and if they've never been allowed to figure things out for themselves...well, then you've got yourself a problem.


Or at least I think that's what Ock was getting at.

~Zoo

My kids learn what's important to me by how I arrange my time, my priorities.

As for teaching them what to think....My husband has one mantra he has pounded into both my boys since birth....and I will share it with you...though the glaring wisdom of it may cause blindness....ready...

"Good sons pay for their father's golf membership every single year."

Well, crap...now I can't see.

~Zoo

Just so long as you send the check to the golf club, you don't need to see.  

Nice, Ock. My parents taught me to think, too. It's the best way.

My kids are 2 years, and 10 months old. By simply not paying attention, one will knock the other over, etc. Should I not tell my son to pay attention to where he's going? Shouldn't I try to indoctrinate him into this, instead of letting him think it through on his own? Why should we wait, when harm could come from waiting?

I agree that people need to think for themselves, and that teaching them how to is very important. What I don't agree with is not sharing Jesus with them.

And I didn't mean to imply that Ock's kids actually do harm or anything, I was speaking of from birth, how long would you let them do harm before they figure out not to? That's the question, and it's more to make a point than to actually get an answer.

I suppose that depends on a person's personal definition of what "doing harm" is.  My children aren't doing any harm at all, to my knowledge.  See...I've only ever taught them one thing.  To think things out, and I've told them I support whatever conclusions they come to.  But they must be able to "show their work" (if you remember the familiar quote from math class).  Note:  I don't say they must show work which comes to a conclusion I have.

Here's an example so we don't go into a digression that isn't worthy of discussion.

My son, for quite some time, wanted to be a pilot.  Unfortunately, my son is also color blind, and this of course, would keep him out of any piloting program (be it air force or commercial or whatever.)  I talked ot him about this about a year ago, and he laughed and said "Yeah, but Dad, you can memorize the color blind test and pass it."

I let it go...for the moment.

Several people in my life said I should stop him.  I could not stand idly by while he cheated on a test which might endanger lives.  Well, of course I couldn't, and had if he had cheated on this test and passed it, I would have blown the whistle on him.  I do not wish to indoctrinate my children, but it would be a wrong of ME to allow him to do that because my enabling would have endangered lives.

So I waited...because I wanted him to come to this realization on his own.  I encouraged him to think.  He thought, and a couple of months ago came to the conclusion, on his own, that it would be a wrong thing to do.  This is exactly what I expected.  My son is a good young man, soon to be a good adult man.  I'm very proud of him.

Teaching right from wrong is not the same thing as indoctrination.  Part of the makeup of human beings is that they are helpless at young ages, and it is a matter of survival that they believe what they are told by their elders.  If they don't, they will come to more harm (potentially death) and sooner.  But many people abuse this.  The dust from the disintigrated bones lies scattered across New York City of two pilots who were indoctrinated to believe what they were told was true.  For them, Jythier, their truth was every bit as real as your own.

When it comes to any belief system, be it religion, politics, or whatever, it is a worthy question to ask "Would my child believe this if I hadn't taught it to them?"

If I ask any of you your religion or political affiliation and then disagree with it from any standpoint whatsoever, you will ultimately be forced to say "Well, Ock, it's my life and my decision.  You believe whatever you want.  I believe this."  Would you not?

But that doesn't apply to children, huh?  We gotta stack the deck on them and make sure they grow up good republicans, or good liberals, or good jews, or good catholics because WE have decided for OURSELVES that this is the right way to think.  Statistically speaking, some of you did come to your beliefs on your own, and some of you believe what you believe because you were taught to believe it at a young age.  There is a reason that there isn't a large number of "conversions" between political lines, and there is definitely a reason why you don't see lots of Islamic jihadists suddenly turning to Christianity (and vice versa).  The reason is indoctrination.

I must wonder how many people would believe what they believe had they not been indoctrinated themselves.  I wonder what the opinion of the people in the World Trade center would be on the subject...provided they were still around to have an opinion.

And yes, Zoo, that's what I was getting at.  I'm not suggesting people let their kids do swan dives into the lit fireplace so they can learn what it's like to be set on fire.

Gangs are full of kids whose parents didn't teach them what to believe in, so the kids found someone who would.

Hah, thought so.





Gangs are often the result of children who were neglected and given only minimal attention. They long for acceptance and a "family" like atmosphere. So then they seek it out and are in turn indoctrinated into that gang's values because to be in a gang you have to have all those oaths and hate towards your rivals and yadda yadda yadda.

Keep in mind, however, that we're talking about higher thinking here. It's not basic stuff like "Don't kill people." or "Hey, don't touch that it's hot."

It's "Hey, you should hate black people." "You should worship this God." "You should be a conservative." "Think every thing I do because I'm always right."

Ever wonder why some kids are little assholes and you have no idea where they get the stupid crap they spout off? Mommy and Daddy are feedin' that to them by the spoonful.

You know the Fred Phelps clan, right? Those kids are out there yelling about "fags" and they have no idea what that even means. That's the kind of bullshit that needs to stop.

~Zoo

AsaxyGirl:

My point is that it is important to teach them both. In fact, from about 15 or 16, the only thing a parent can really teach their kids is how to think for themselves. At that point, anything else the parent hopes to teach their kids has already been accepted or rejected by the kids.

At least that is how I see it.

Zoo:

True, but they are also getting if from teachers at school, other kids, music lyrics, tv shows, movies and anyone else they accept as worth listening to.

Kids rarely grow up to be carbon copies of their parents. Even in families where the kids were raised with specific religious, political or philosophical beleifs. I mean, it was the WWII generation that raised The Baby Booomers and the Baby Boomers raised Gen X. "Generational Drift" isn't a sociological term for nothing. ;~D



Yes, it is dangerous, but how do we stop it? Who gets to decide what is "teaching hate" and what isn't? Remember, to many The Boy Scouts, the U.S. Military and even the Republican and Democrat parties are "hate groups".

So, while I agree that some people teach their kids some very horrible things... where do we draw the line, and who gets to decide what you should and shouldn't be able to teach your kids?