Why is there no storyline in this game?

The "storyline" is just a backround history of each race. However I think the developers are going to make a campaign, but not anytime soon, I dont think...

With a game on this scale its almost impossible to have a campaign that would make sense.

With a game on this scale? thats complete nonsense, homeworld had one of the best storys ever, it really wouldn't take much effort to sort out a story which slowly introduces you to the ships and research tree. I was very disapointed to discover it was just a skirmish game, and I know friends that aren't buying it because of this.

When I purchased this game I thought it was the perfect blend of Homeworld and supremacy, 2 of my all time favourite games. but I think it misses the mark on quite a few grounds, I've played about 8-10hours worth now, and already getting bored. each skirmish is simply a race up the tech tree.

I can understand how the game might not be enjoyable to some people, but that's a gross oversimplification. It's a bit like saying any RTS is "simply pointing and clicking".

On topic: Homeworld didn't have planets as fixed bases. Instead the mothership slowly upgraded its manufacturing capabilities as it moved from location to location across the galaxy, allowing the player to build more and better starships. It had an aspect of "growth" to it on each map that really helped the ability to tell a story.

Sins normally starts with in one single map and finishes with an empire.
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I could see a campaign easily making sense by using a set of individual maps representing solar systems and star clusters within an overall galactic sector. Each map comes with its own objectives, and as you advance through the campaign and the borders of your own territory expand and collide with other empires, the number and power of your enemies increases.

For example: TEC's campaign could have an overall objective to build an invincible economy by creating edge-to-edge trade routes. You'd start with a small easy map in an unexplored galactic cluster that had you wiping out garrisons and fending off a small Advent scouting fleet. From there, you'd send out colony frigates to other star systems (i.e. maps), each having its own objective and special considerations. One might have a lot of resource asteroids that you have to claim, another might require you to annihilate a particularly powerful pirate lord, and so on.

Vasari motivation is collecting resources and rapidly moving on while keeping a fleet of colony motherships alive. Advent's story might be spreading their culture to the heart of the TEC empire to create a civil war and reclaim a secret culture-producing artifact technology that was left behind.

Such a campaign would be *long*, but I'd sure play it.

-- Retro

To answer the OP, the finite time frame Ironclad wanted to create a campaign, but they realized that they would not have time to do a good one, and rather than half-ass one they decided instead on perfecting the sandbox gameplay, and leave the campaign off for the expansion. They have confirmed that the expansion will have a campaign to explore the story!

I will be honest I thought there should have been a campaign as well but the fact the gameplay is good is how they have got away with it. I love the game but I think they should put a campaign of somesort in the current game free since thats an expected standard these days.

It has good replay value though and honestly it plays so much better than any rts I know of , I find most to be just click fests but sins there is so much ways to do stuff, as for rushing up the tech tree maybe I just aint good enough but I find when Im constantly fighting rushing the tech tree and using all my resources isnt the best idea. I still rate it as a good game but would have liked to see a campaign and even though some make good points , it would only have added to the game in my view.

No edit button but I agree once it gets out about no campaign many wont buy, Im happy with my purchase but I realise this. I also think unless they put a campaign in the current game its going to put a fair portion of people of buying any expansion since they have no proof that IC can do a great campaign. I just repeat though I really like this game but people would have to be naive to think that no campaign isnt going to hurt this and future products in some way.

I WILL be buying the expansion btw , just saying I know some will be put off. It is a good game though and MP is so much fun

Pretty much all of the reviews I've seen have mentioned that there is no campaign. It's not really a hidden secret Stardock or Ironclad don't want anyone to know - they've said there won't be a campaign way prior to the game's release, too.

Actually yeah you do have a valid point. As mentioned many times I reallyy like the game, thats the problem with most strats the campaign is what makes them but when you get down to the actual gameplay and mechanics the way in which they work is essentially shallow , this is where SINS differs but the problem is it takes a couple of weeks of reading and playing to fully appreciate. (In saying that I have only played 1 faction and Im still figuring things out so I have still a shed load of replay value but read on , I cover this )

I have been playing a couple of weeks, when I first played I thought its okay, respectable/no piece of crap but then after 2 dauys solid of playing I was like wow this just may not be rush orientated rubbish , and now its like every game I play the amount I like it increases 10 fold. Within 4 to 5 days I really liked it. I started improving then went on mp after 8 days, won my first game and totally loved the game because MP didnt seem like zerg rush material, so many facets of gameplay that It is impossible for players to be truely predictable and its not a matter of securing 1 resource in teh middle of the map, so many angles. Heres the thing 2 weeks later I play the game and it just keeps getting better as far as enjoyable matches go and I have only really played TEC, was going off them then got some tips from my clan about the priorities of TEC and Im holding my own in TEC end game. This latest game Im playing on a huge map feels truely epic. So your talking to the converted and its just great Im still getting so much out of 1 faction, still leaps and bounds to learn and I have yet to play vasari and advent.

The only thing regarding the campaign which is misleading is what certain reviewers are saying, they merely say you run missions for factions but they dont eloborate on how this relates in practice, some people may think the game has a deep mission system and that may be why they mistakenly think of some unique campaign system as well. (I did read specifically that there was no campaign like you said though, to me thus far I dont think it really matters , especially considering with the game not being rush orientated there are oppurtunities for RP and things)

The biggest problem about it not having a campaign is that it's tricky for new players to figure the game out. The tutorials are a start, but as much as I love Ironclad and Stardock (truly guys, I do!), it's not that polished, and it ignores so much. Additionally, the manual really leaves out a lot. Just go look at an old Civilization manual (even the Civ3 and Civ4 ones) - now THAT'S how a strategy game's manual should be. Chock full of detail. s is, the user is left guessing about things like wormholes and multiple star systems, and what needs to be done to utilize them.

I've gotten over all of this because once you spend time with the game, you'll have so much damn fun that it stops mattering.

Do I still want to see a campaign? Hell yes, and I can't wait for the expansion to see it. I'm intrigued, because it sounds like the Ironclad folk have something particularly unique in mind for it.

-HM

Indeed

lol like the quote, you have just hit the nail right on the head and why IC has boldly and largely got away with no campaign. Thats what its like for me as well, I mean some of the things you suggest Im trying to pick up but Im still having great games so your correct ,so much fun it doesnt matter



yeah agreed

Well an expansion pack is coming out that will include among other things a campaign mode

while I agree theres no real need for a storymode campaign, it'd be really nice
I started off with a super-huge FFA, random all the way down, all easy, and its been 2 weeks, and I think I have another week to go before I beat it.

So we get the basic background for the races, but it would be nice to play through the campaign of each race's history, who they are, develop some characters, and get their own perspective on things and their perspective on each of the races, cause you know all 3 of them have got to be 3 completely different views on what is happening.

Starcraft for example, yes its a great game and it doesn't really need a storyline, but thats what makes starcraft memorable, its those moments of glorious gameplay that sticks with us and makes us speak well of a game even after we're done playing them.

Homeworld is a great example of what sins could expand on. We all remember the beginning of homeworld, its one of the most memorable and tragic moments in any game i've ever played.

TEC, they are a peaceful people, thrown into a despirate struggle for survival and freedom. Thats strong emotion rivaling WW2's strong feelings. Fight for your life, could develop TEC heroes like Jim Raynor with the TEC. TEC's sins of the past was the forced exodus of the Advent. (i think?)

Varasi, they're being hunted by an unknown horror, theres a ton of story potential there. Their sins of the past are their brutality to the peoples they subjugate. Also, am I the only one that wants to know more about the lost armada? Theres just so much to expand on with them.

The advent is back, and they blame the TEC for their troubles. What is their view on the terrible thing that the TEC did back in the day? What was the real reason for their forced exodus? Was it really because they lived differently, or was there something else there? Are either the advent or the TEC or both using any untrue propaganda to justify their actions vs their enemies? Also you could get into the details of Advent perspective. The exodus, their arrival to their new home, their struggles, their adaptation, their overcoming obstacles, achieving dominance of their domain, and finally their revenge on the TEC.

So while not necessary, a single player campaign could be very awesome.

TEC nuke everything, including other TEC faction citizens. I wouldn't call them "peaceful". Of the three races they're the most genocidal toward citizens and, therefore, the most evil. Don't be swayed just because they look the most like us.

As stated elsewhere, all races should have shades of gray in any campaign. A race is made up of people and factions too.

-- Retro

I recommend reading the postmortem linked from the home page. "No single player campaign" is the #1 bullet point under "What Went Wrong".

Maybe this is just me, but I'm glad there is no single-player campaign. However, I wouldn't be opposed to having one in the game. I enjoy doing whatever I want, when I want, with no real need to reach certain "victory conditions" or short term goals to progress the story.

Yeah limiting victory conditions Im not for either because everyone online will use them rather than just saving the game and cordinating the game and players well enough that they or someone in their place will come back in a second sitting.

I wouldnt be moaning if a campaign did get added though , either way the game as it currently stands heck Im still trying to find a good way to use stars in my game and get conquering far away galaxys fast so Ive still loads to try in game.

What conerns me right now is that any story that IronClad produces won't match the "internal vision" fans have already come up that describes the various racial and faction motivations. Even though I fully understand WHY they didn't release the campaign with the game, I know this is a risk.

I bet the forum will be full of comments like "...but plot element X isn't LIKE the Vasari...!". This would be a bit tragic because IronClad actually created them.

I'm hoping the campaign will have 'hard' and 'very hard' difficulty levels too. I now consider myself a fairly experienced single-player "veteran" and would be disappointed if half of the campaign turned out to be a total cakewalk because I already know what works and what doesn't in a given situation. I'm willing to bet most people that play MP are similar, if not outright better than me.

-- Retro

I think for a campaign to be succesful requires alot of work, were talking 40hrs of campaign content at least, if you want it to be something special , I would prefer 100+ hours of campaign in fact any adventure game or rpg if it doesnt have like 50 hours + I dont rate it well at all, I am quite a cynical gamer though. I actually liked morrowind 100 times better than oblivion because it has ALOT more content.

Completely differant game but in regards to sins , I reckon if they could expand on the current diplomacy missions a massive amount , so much so that you could land on planets and mini cutscenes would play and you could run LOTS of faction missions. The campaign should be 3 way at least, possibly 4 way if you want to include the pirates as a viable campaign choice. The thing is though if the campaign isnt going to be deep and something special then they should just say straight up that it would be too much work because a half baked campaign could really ruin the game.

Just being honest and although I like Gcviv 2 I think the campaign for this game has to go a much differant route tbh and be to a much higher standard. I agree with you about having elements of the campaign difficult, the whole reason Im so cynical about games atm is because they are too short sited and glitzy graphics are meaning I can sometimes buy a game for £40 and be finished it completely in 4 hours. A world beater game should be taking you at least a month or 2 to finish and have masses of replay value. Ideally they want a big enough team so that right from day 1 there are people who are working on thje pirates, vesari,advent and TEC campaign , so they are off equal quality. Also obscene difficulty should NOT be used as a tool to hide the fact there isnt much to the game. Also to make it the best for all, there should really be masses of NON boring NON monotonous content, sure have it easy for the first 2 or 3 starting out parts of the campaign , that way new folk know what they are doing but the fact there should be months of content , you still have enough left to do a string of hard missions that will keep newbie and veteran alike busy for a long while.

The story really needs to be well thought out, good voice acting and NO factions skimped on(See space force rogue universe, complete disaster of a game and frankly an insult to gamers worldwide who bought it)

Conceptually there is so much unique stuff could be done with this game if the campaign developers are imaginative, possibly make the game even more of a hybrid than it already is , add depth , purpose and uniqueness to the campaign. By this I mean show gamers some kind of "deep" open ended concept merged with the current game mechanics. Fact is we have next gen graphics but many companies just go with the same formulae for games over and over , thats why Im so resistant to people trying to reshape this game like some fed ex non original game like the majority of games out there today.

Please think about incorporating some kind of open endedness into the current game(chancing my luck here I know lol) or expansion. In regards to the expansion , I know its hard work and I dont mean to critical but all I would suggest is do it 110% or not at all, dont take shortcuts, go for depth and lastability in the game, if you go for open endedness in any way shape or form dont take cheap shortcuts or it will be a disaster (See parkan II)

Good luck with the expansion please though do it correctly or just say look its too much work we will just stick with the current formulae and enhance. If you dont go as deep as I am saying I think you will do the current game more damage than good.

All the best with it. (I am always seeking games that show innovation but lately I have found very few for a long time)