Just an update, I had a really fun game against a very competitive premade a few mintues ago, and it was because they were willing to kick a player who clearly had no place being in that lobby.

I REALLY think that the short-term solution to the premade issue is to make a player's win/loss/disconnect record visible in lobbies.  This would change the nature of pub stomps dramatically.

If team lobbies and automatching are a long ways off on the horizon and in-game stats are relatively easy, I strongly implore SD/GPG to implement the stats asap.

I play a game with my friend, we play a 4v4 and are the only 2 who know eachother.... premade?

I play another game with 2 friends who are horrible at the game and have bad records.... premade?

I play a pug game, someone from that game joins the next game I host and happens to pop onto my team.... premade?

I play a game with 2 friends, none of us have vent just friends that want to play the game together.... premade?

Another bottom line statement, as soon as you put "premade" into your title, it is assumed you are good or pro players (which is not always true), it is also guarunteed to take longer for you to get a game going, for a lot of players like myself who work full time I don't have time to wait 20 minutes, I barely get 2-3 games a night in as it is if that.

If you are a premade and you seek out challenging games, be that by finding competent opponents or playing with not-so-competent friends then it's a non-issue.

It does show what I'm beginning to think is the real issue though which is the lack of in-game statistics to allow players to match themselves intelligently while an auto-matching system is being developed.

I don't think the issue is "premade" in general its playing against a coordinated attack. 3 people who decide to just start playing are technically a premade even though most likely they suck to start.

I think 3 good players can go against a premade and win.

So yea I think we do need some sort of rank to be shown in the matchmaking section.

Take this statement: "friends are always there for you." You could argue that there are good friends, shitty friends, friendly acquaintances, etc. and therefore that statement is untrue. However it's beside the point.  When people talk about premades here they're not talking about shades of grey like shitty premades, partial premades, or friends who play on opposite teams, they're talking about pug rollers.

The semantics dilute the discussion.

Except the fact that most people with decent records will leave a premade game. As soon as people look me up they drop my games.

You proved my point again in my original post.  We disagree with the defintition of "premade" thus in my very first post in this thread I said lets stop arguing about premades or crying about premades because we can't actually define it.

Premade IS NOT THE ISSUE.  Its the balance of the (custom) games.  Put records in and players can choose to ignore them or not but at least they can see them, there are several other well thought out solutions (none of which are implimented or even hinted at being implimented).

Lastly wicked has a great point.  Every game I start up (regardless of my teamates or record of teamates) I see people come in on the other side, look me up, and leave.  Check my last two games, we had a guy 9-31 who joined both games I hosted on my team.  I didn't kick him, but good players on the other side left my game.  I could have easily lost those games to any even average players.

So..after starting this messy thread...The smartest suggestions appear to be:

1) STATS!!!! Show Stats in Game Lobby (which leads to me to conclude with FrogBoys 'overruling' Get STATS working )

    - and please show those stats in the game lobby.

One extra stat I would love to see (which could be kinda tricky to implement/display), would be to show the number of times player X has played the other players on their team. (perhaps my hoving the mouse over their name in the lobby..a popup would could display this).

2) Hope for a premade host that will watch/kick players from the game based on their stats...sadly this can be difficult..due to:

   a) Stability of the system

   Stat accuracy.

   c) If u r a pugger in the lobby I emplore u too keep the premade host honest...even if ur on their team..if they r not keeping both teams balanced by not bouncing players that should not be there..then call em out..and quit the lobby yourself.

Once stats r up and running we can start putting ranking/win rates in the title...(of course those still won't mean much when it comes to 'premade' pug stompers..but.oh well).

Ahem. Arranged and Random Team Automatch.

Actually, I will usually drop from a premade game after looking up my teammates stats.  Not gonna play against a premade when my teammate has a 15% win rate.

I've been pushing for this for several weeks.  Frogboy has mentioned that they may put this type of information in the connection manager window.  Hopefully they implement this soon.

i agree

premades means nothing

its all about skill

better specify the lvl of players

Well i got plenty people who like teamworking with me, its all in the communication part!! No communication is losing 95%.
So does that count towards as a premade, i dont know the guy other then online.

When im:
out of mana i say: reload, meaning im off and brb
in need of items i say: shopping
saying snipe: free kill for the sniper
saying run: im out of mana and outnumbered
saying lol: some1 of the oposite team quits