some questions on AI, traits

Played parts of a few games, have some questions (all for games with 'normal' difficulty):

- I took a tech bonus of 50% with the 'creativity' ability, and found this to be something of a waste. It seems that picking traits which boost economics, or perhaps production, are more valuable; either one means more money for research, which translates into a flexible bonus that you can turn on and off at will via the sliders.

Also, on normal difficulty I don't have a problem remaining somewhat ahead of the AI in tech so long as the AI is near my size or smaller. However, I've yet to see a game where one AI player hasn't become relatively huge compared to everyone else - which pretty much obviates the research bonus since his larger economy spends alot more in this area anyway.

In any event, I'm wondering if this what other people have seen.

- at normal difficulty, the AI seems to play a 'pay up or die' game of diplomacy. The cycle goes: AI makes a series of unreasonable demands; AI gets annoyed that you won't cripple yourself to assist in his galactic domination; AI declares war; war drags on forever; AI eventually gets bored and offers peace; several turns later, the whole cycle starts over again.

In other words, the AI seems to be stupidly aggressive, wasting valuable resources trying to whack your forces when it could be using them to build its own empire up. It isn't a problem defending against the AI; just identify the planets he has a hankering for and stack high-defense ships on them, occasionally replacing losses.

This cycle has happened in every 'normal' difficulty game I've played so far, often resulting in (at some point) every power being at war with me at the same time. Like I said, it isn't difficult to defend against, it's just...tedious.

So the question is: is this atypical? Is the AI stupidly aggressive only on lower difficulty settings, i.e., should I increase the difficulty to get an AI that does something other than demand stuff, then go to war? If this is typical at all difficulty settings, is there some way to hack the data files to tone down AI aggression, make it play a smarter game?

And finally, kudos to the designers for making the techs modifiable. I detest 'strategy' games where the techs come so fast and furious you're constantly building improvements/upgrading/etc., like in Civ where by the time your army reaches the enemy it's already outdated. One of the first things I did, after the very first game, was change the research point requirements for the techs to slow things waaaaaay down, to get a more moderate, period-based style game. It's quite nice, being able to tinker with the very thing that normally turns me off to most strategy games.

Max


320 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top
Hmmm. Very interesting complaint. I see your comments as very appropriate.
Please just be aware that:
(a) if you had a stronger military ranking (ATT mainly, but some def) AI would not attak you so much and
(b) at higher levels of difficulty, repulsing the attacks is much harder.

I suggest you increase difficulty to crippling...

And good luck when you do! (You'll need it!)

~SDC~
Reply #2 Top
Yep, most players come to the realisation very early on in their Galciv career that strong military forces = power in this game. If you are having problems with demanding civs, then build up your military as soon as possible (depending on map size, and assuming your economy can handle a larger military). Keep an eye on the military graph on the righthand side to ensure your military is at about the same or better than the other civs.
Nonetheless, there are different strategies one can use to placate the aliens, Some may be:
. Try a strong diplomacy game with a good diplomatic rating.
. Trade with the civ that you want to get on better terms with.
. Bribe a civ to declare war on another civ. This can keep your enemies occupied with fighting each other and it often decreases both their military.
. Is your alignment Good and the civ's alignment is Evil or vice versa? You should keep an eye on the different alignments.

But at the end of the day, a strong military will keep the peace best.
Reply #3 Top
Well, that's too bad. I was hoping for a more canny AI; this 'everyone hates you and attacks you all at once' approach is rather typical for the genre, and, I think, is used instead of smart play in order to make things harder at higher difficulty levels.

Thing is, in GalCiv you can have a markedly smaller military and still win defensive battles handily. Which means you don't need a stronger military to halt the enemy attack, just to stop it from occurring in the first place. End result: AI acts like an idiot, fighting a war it can't win.

As a builder sort, the constant warfare is a real turn-off, as is the practical requirement to support a huge military in order to avoid an all-pervasive, ongoing war. Other options - options which *don't* require you to get on your knees and beg for mercy - would be nice.

I like GalCiv, but I think I'm going to put it away and wait for an expansion pack or two to come out, see if things change.

Max
Reply #4 Top
There are plenty of posts out there where people have managed to fend off the AI without firing a single shot and without necessarily having a superior military. Alot of it boils down to superior diplomacy, trade routes and alignment. Basically if your alignment is good, the good races will typically not bother you so much, even if the military is somewhat weaker.

Make no mistake, this game is about galactic domination. If I saw an empire right next to me that is so grossly inferior, then yeah, I will attempt to take them out.

If you want to avoid war, have superior diplomacy and open trade routes to your rivals. Trade makes a difference in keeping them off your back. Also giving a gift to them from time to time, selling ships, etc will keep them happy as well.
Reply #5 Top
...One of the first things I did, after the very first game, was change the research point requirements for the techs to slow things waaaaaay down, ...
End of quote


How did you accomplish this? Did you go into each tech and jack up the price?

~SDC~
Reply #6 Top
forceinfinity:

I did indeed think that superior diplomacy and trade routes would keep the AI from becoming insanely aggressive. Unfortunately, this only worked with the 'pure good' race (can't remember the name off-hand), and only after I'd thoroughly kicked their asses to show them the error of their ways.

The others however...sigh. Just not freakin' amenable. They were on the lower difficulty levels, but the moment I set it to 'normal' everyone became a raving lunatic.

Also, my empire is generally only inferior to one AI player (inferior according to the game, although I don't have any problem handing them their cojones on a platter). This doesn't stop the other AI players from following the same 'pay or die' routine. And as for 'galactic domination' - there are more ways to accomplish this than constant war. If I were interested in nonstop warfare I'd fire up Total War, or even Warcraft 2.

It could just be that the game isn't for me. I'm interested in empire building and diplomacy, with wars few and far between. If the GalCiv AI is intentionally set to psychopathic levels of aggression (like most strategy games) then it's clearly not my cup of tea. Which is why I was hoping their was a way to reduce AI aggressiveness to make it focus more on the same things that I am: empire building and diplomacy. Or at the very least convince it that after losing a couple hundred ships on futile assaults against my planets that perhaps the current tactic being employed is a stupid one.

Think, in this instance, Europa Universalis 2. You can take a power which'll constantly be at war for most of the game (or make it so), or you can play a power which can sit out most of the conflicts and try to win through an alternate route (e.g., Spain or England with colonization). I guess that's what I'm looking for in the space strategy genre.

BTW, I also tried gifting ships to the AI to see if that would work. In my last game I found 91 (!!) precursor corvettes (?), and gave 25 of them to one of the AI races. Before the ships were even out of my territory it declared war, turned them around, and used them to attack one of my planets. Highly ineffective tactic, that. I sold the rest to a minor power.

Hmmm...perhaps setting all the players to 'pure good' would be the same as toning down the aggression without dumbing down the AI. Maybe I'll try this before giving up.

HawaiiFive-O: yep, I went into the galtech file and manually edited the prices. I didn't see a way to set any generic factor to slow down tech, so that appeared to be the only option.

I first set it to 10 x the normal cost, but the algorithm in use isn't linear. Increasing the cost in the file by a factor of 10 *does not* slow down research to 1/10 the normal speed. It was closer to 3-5 times slower.

In the last game I played, I set it to 30 x the normal cost. This was closer to what I wanted: techs come very slowly and the game becomes 'period-based'. What that means is that certain techs, and each ship, dominate for reasonable stretches of time. You can't just skip over ship classes racing up the tech tree because each ship class will be the best available for long periods.

I don't know if tech advancement is adjusted for galaxy size and/or the appearance of habitable planets. I did all of this on the largest galaxy size, with hability ranging from 'abundant' (too tedious) to 'occasional' (much easier to manage). If you use a smaller galaxy, therefore less resources for tech, you will have to reduce the factor accordingly.

Max
Reply #7 Top
but the algorithm in use isn't linear
End of quote


Interesting, that.

I set it to 30 x the normal cost
End of quote


Woof! I slow it down too, but not that high. :)

tech advancement is adjusted for galaxy size
End of quote


'Tis. I don't believe it is for # of habitable planets, though.

I didn't see a way to set any generic factor to slow down tech, so that appeared to be the only option
End of quote


*shameless plug* Aahh, but there is. I wrote a program that will allow you to set the Research Factor, and restore the original baseline when you want to try a different factor. It's the GalCiv Writer, and you can find it http://www.ctuit.com/bill/galciv.htm

Interesting. Glad to meet someone else who likes to slooowwwww things down in-game as well.

~SDC~
Reply #8 Top
Max Public -

You can stay out of wars, but you need a strong defensive force.

I frequently crank out Defenders, BattelAxes, BHammers just to deter the other civs.

I know what you mean about other games where you can be non-military and win, but here you at least need to build a fleet to scare them off.

The AI views weak militaries as easy pickings, maybe rightly so.

"It seems that we miscalculated in our attempt to.... make your civilization become one with us."
Reply #9 Top
Okay, so for one thing version matters a lot, the original release had very aggressive AIs, so upgrade.

Second, trade is key. Trade constantly improves your relationships with that race.

And yes, since I have simialr inclinations to your own, an all pure good is a very nice idea. Try pure good for all races with the AI's set at genious. You still will have to have trade with everyone and have a decent military, but you can play a very diplomatic game... as long as you aren't evil.