Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile               Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike            lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                  Kitkun                 Agent of Kharma
                                                    Hrabandur               -Ue_Carbon          Qu4r 
                                                    CrazyElectron            Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

 

No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,704,897 views 913 replies +3 Loading…
Reply #476 from Sins Forums Top

:rofl:  Blackhawk

Yay to hanger buff.

How bout fleet supply nerf to advents anti structure ship.18 is rediculous for such a crappy ship.The ogrov is 2x the ship of the adj for less fleet supply.

Reply #477 from Sins Forums Top

Stuck when doing a 3 point turn?  Try getting stuck while trying to move in a straight line?

 

How bout fleet supply nerf to advents anti structure ship.18 is rediculous for such a crappy ship.The ogrov is 2x the ship of the adj for less fleet supply.
End of quote

You mean buff; a nerf would mean making it worse.

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #478 from Sins Forums Top

Yes I was meaning making it less fleetpoints.

Reply #479 from Sins Forums Top
What about my idea of increasing max strikecrafts number for some non-carriers caps?
Reply #480 from Sins Forums Top

I think it would greatly reduce carrier caps.Besides I like the relationship they all have except fighters and flak.Fighters die before they can kill a sufficent amount of lrf.

Reply #481 from Sins Forums Top

It was mentioned earlier that flaks should have something to deal more damage to LRF.  Well, in my mod, I am working on Defense Cruisers which are essentially FF's big brother.  Its normal weapons deal anti-light damage.  They also have forward weapons though that deal some other sort of damage though I can't decide between light and medium...  Oh well, time will tell..  If it works out though, I'll post the results here so perhaps the devs might do something like it in the future...

Reply #482 from Stardock Forums Top

I think the damage%bonus of ANTIVERYLIGHT attack vs. Light armor should be buffed slightly.

And NERF THE ILLUM'S HULL POINTS!!!!

Reply #483 from Sins Forums Top

Again, I really think the lums are gonna take a big hit when the BUG is fixed.

Reply #484 from Sins Forums Top

Agreed; we can discuss illums further once the damage bug is dealt with.

Reply #485 from Sins Forums Top

Problem is is there a patch comin its been awhile now.

Reply #486 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I don't see illum or lrf spam as much in general anymore so I don't see what the problem is that people keep griping about it.  Cap carrier/LF/scout spam is so prevalent that it makes it difficult to keep lrf around in any kind of numbers generally unless you are against a newer/less experienced player until a sizeable amount of flak or fighters are built to give cover.  Some are stuck still fighting the last "war"/patch.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #487 from Sins Forums Top

GreyFox, I dicided to switch to TEC for a while and see how badly they are now. I played againest an advent play in most game i played in say about 8 and guess what? i died 6 times. The way i dealt with illums before was a fleet of gardas and scouts or gardas and irms, but now its got harder since all flaks got nerfed.

 

I even did a test agaianest staler a couple of days ago, i had 32 destra, 32 illums,20 defense vessles and 4 guadians. he had 60 illums and 12 guardians and an Vasair Starbase, even without the sb, i would have lost, illums are just too powerful and since i have finished my tests, i am gonna come out of hiding now and stop smurfing!

 

illums are just too powerful (coming from an advent player), and tec have been nerfed hard, like i said before, only a few people play them now, there really aint much point playing them. TEC Irms are weak and cheap for a reason, but seriusly, how can you outnumber an Advent player 2:1 at a begining of the game?

 

Maybe if you lower everones trade port research by 1, for example 1 civic lab to research trade for tec, 2 labs for advent etc.

 

that may work i think.

Reply #488 from Sins Forums Top

Flak weren't really touched last patch.  The only thing changed was that vasari flak ability does not affect frigates anymore but only SC.  The difference now is that flak's counter(light frigates) were buffed and rose to more prominence.  That doesn't make LRF the problem in your situation as LRF were not changed for the better last patch other than a bug that has been there for who knows how long with illums.  What I am saying as an advent player myself is that it is difficult to even bother using illums when you are against a player that uses carrier cap spam/disciple/scout spam because they are just going to be quickly destroyed by scouts and fighters.  Illuminators and LRF in general are NOT the problem right now.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #490 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I don't see illum or lrf spam as much in general anymore so I don't see what the problem is that people keep griping about it.
End of quote

Didn't feel that way after that massive lum vs lum war I had last night.  Both sides had around 80 illums plus plenty of support.  I myself had 15 defense vessels, 5 guardians, and a progen (it started level 1, but was level 5 by the time they killed it, about 30 seconds into the fight).  They had like 5 or 6 caps, but I managed to kill about half of them before the fighting ended.

 

Reply #491 from Sins Forums Top

I think its more a prob mid game than early.Once an advent gets 40+ ilums its extremely tough to defeat ilums.Carriers dont work cause flak counter so fast and cheap.Theres not much after that besides fighting with lrf which doesnt work except with another advent.I was playing against arch as over last night.He was advent I was vas.He started out with 8 disciples and soon as he saw me building kanracks he had 20 scouts before I could get 10.Only thing I could do was sb.Once he got ilums there was nothing besides sb.He had 80 and they kill everything.Even a sb thats upgraded.I tried to get overseers and subs but he was so far ahead because I had to build sbs to save my worlds.80 ilums kill almost everything its a bit crazy.I wonder if part of the prob is we play the game on fast build settings.Scouts and lf build to fast.They can start behind you in numbers and outnumber you before you can do damage.Lose a few ilums its ok eco and build speeds are fast.

Reply #492 from Sins Forums Top

I've tried the game on slower settings.  Scout/LF with carrier cap is even more powerful because the cost of labs is more significant and the scout/lf masser needs none.  Yeah, he can't get (fast) illums, but he doesn't need 'em.

The problem is that once they're in sufficient numbers that SC can't pick them off and capital ships cannot tank them, illuminators essentially have no counter.  Sure, heavies (non-Vasari) will work, but they're too little too late.  Too many labs, take too long to build, and the counter isn't really as hard as it needs to be.  TEC has a shot with hoshikos, and frankly I think a hoshiko-equipped attacker or defender is the ONLY thing an established illum-spammer has to fear, but once the hoshikos run out of antimatter the sidebeams just rip apart the fleet as usual...

Reply #493 from Sins Forums Top

Greyfox2, illum spam is still here.  I see massive illum fleets all the time.  Every game I play.  The way it always works is, you'll see 8-10 after the advent player's initial scout/disiple spam (if you are getting dual-halcyoned, those 8-10 illums will start rolling in after you've made your lf to defend against his lf/scouts/halcyons).  The next threshhold is 30-ish, then 50-ish, then 80-ish.  30-something illums are already nasty - capships better get the hell out of there.  50-something and I'm just running.  80-something is ridiculous - everything around them melts instantaneously, starbases go "poof" in an instant.

Reply #494 from Sins Forums Top

starbases go "poof" in an instant.
End of quote

not quite that bad but in my game I had overseers in next well and couldnt get to my 7700 health plus full shield with repair bays in  time to save it.That wasnt even the full 80 think it was only 50.Once he has 50 there is no forward movement if you have had to invest in sb.I even tried to run the sb down the middle and make them split up but it didnt save me.

Reply #495 from Sins Forums Top

So, general agreement.  10-20 illums is counterable, 30 will melt a capital ship ridiculously fast, 50 will push you on the defensive regardless of your fleet, and 80 will roll a starbase without trouble.  Glad we got that cleared up.

Reply #496 from Sins Forums Top

If Seekers are weakened and Illuminators only debugged we will just have even more illuminator spam than before.  The real counter to Illuminators is seekers, rather than any other types of scout.  If there were more 1v1 replays where Advent played another faction it would be clearer how superior Illuminators are, with more LF on the battlefield.  However, when most games are team games with Advent on both sides it doesn't show up.

The problem with scout/LF is that the static defences have to be cheap enough to reflect their immobility.  However the scout/lf masser still has to get to critical numbers before being scouted, this allows normal start an advantage.  The second cap being produced slower allows more time for the defender to make his second cap a carrier as well.  The scout/LF spammer has to win on the rush.. stalemates are defeats.  However, is there really a scout/LF rush- apart from the Advent Seeker/Disciple rush? 

This thread has value, but what Sins vitally needs is a group of players who are strong enough to play 1v1 against each other with the various factions to test balance for the community.  Opinions without replays only count for so much.  Can we have the issue of acquiring 1v1 replays between top players to examine faction balance as a topic? 

Please hotfix the Illuminators before the patch!

Reply #497 from Sins Forums Top

So, general agreement. 10-20 illums is counterable, 30 will melt a capital ship ridiculously fast, 50 will push you on the defensive regardless of your fleet, and 80 will roll a starbase without trouble. Glad we got that cleared up.
End of quote

This sounds sarcastic?Which would mean your fine with it?I still stand by my statement that fighters need buffed so we dont have this prob.

Reply #498 from Sins Forums Top

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-
                                     Yay-

                          Increase DPS?-
                                     Nay-

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
                                     Nay-

                          Re-work Animosity?
                                     Nay-

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
                                    Yay-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?
                                  Nay-

                      Buff Replicate Forces?
                                  Yay-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?
                                 Nay-

                     Increase maximum AM?
                                 Nay-

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?
                                 Nay-

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
                                Nay-

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
                               Yay-

                     Buff Phase out hull?
                               Nay-

My idea for Marauder,
-Change Distort gravity to passive.

too strong?what do you think?:)

Reply #499 from Sins Forums Top

If Seekers are weakened and Illuminators only debugged we will just have even more illuminator spam than before. The real counter to Illuminators is seekers, rather than any other types of scout.
End of quote

Oh, as if Advent deserves the only counter to illuminators <_<

Most of us tend to agree that the TEC scout is right on target for how strong scouts should be.  The seeker is already overpowered with regards to this mark.  The problem here is on the illuminator's end, not the scout's. 

However the scout/lf masser still has to get to critical numbers before being scouted, this allows normal start an advantage.  The second cap being produced slower allows more time for the defender to make his second cap a carrier as well.
End of quote

Who said I'm going dual-cap?  I rush single-cap all the time.  In fact, if I'm not getting fed I will never do a dual-cap lead as Advent.  I'll just make a faster hit with one cap.  If you try to go dual cap, that actually makes it easier on me, because single-cap Halcyon with mass disciple > dual-halcyon with fewer disciples. 

I won a very decisive rush just last night where I showed that one cap with frigate backup does indeed beat two caps.  People are getting way too into the dual-cap rush right now, especially for Advent (I think it works best for TEC, personally).  There are three big weaknesses to the dual-cap rush.  First, it's expensive, it's going to take virtually ALL your cash to do this.  Second, it's predictable.  If I don't see you spending money on frigates or labs, I know that the only rational explanation is that you're saving for a second cap.  Thirdly, your caps level up slower.  A very common rush scenario is to see one level 3 Halcyon against two level 2 Halcyons (or, in the case of my game last night, a level 2 and a level 1).  Assuming both sides are maxing ADA, that's 6 strike craft against 8 strike craft.  Because the single capital ship levels up faster.  You paid a lot of cash for a measly two strike craft advantage.

The key to making this rush stick is to go for the factories.  As soon as you warp in, send all your light frigates to the factory and your fighters to take out any construction frigates.  Send a small group of 4-5 light frigates to each of your opponent's colonized planets to take out constructors there and prevent him from rebuilding factories in other locations.  Now, just keep a constant stream of reinforcements.  Knock out any existing frigates or repair bays he may have.  Just keep the flow of reinforcements coming and you're gold.  This is a very common killing strategy, you can really swap out any unit types and it will still work, but most of the time it's a carrier-led LF rush.  You don't need dual-cap to do this, and in fact it works better with one cap and additional units.

 

However, is there really a scout/LF rush- apart from the Advent Seeker/Disciple rush?
End of quote

Yeah, TEC with cobalts and scouts backing up a Sova will also work.   Vasari, however, certainly cannot do this.

 

I still stand by my statement that fighters need buffed so we dont have this prob.
End of quote

As I said in the other thread, I think it will make matters worse.  Making fighters stronger against illums (and LRF in general) will hit armies with fewer illums harder.  This will have little impact on fully mature illuminator swarms (since with TK push, shield restore, guardians, and so on they can protect their illuminators until they get the job done) but will completely wipe illuminators as part of a balanced army off the map.

Reply #500 from Sins Forums Top

So, general agreement. 10-20 illums is counterable, 30 will melt a capital ship ridiculously fast, 50 will push you on the defensive regardless of your fleet, and 80 will roll a starbase without trouble. Glad we got that cleared up.
End of quote

Actually, 30-50 range is where upgraded starbases start dropping like flies.  Unupgraded ones will drop to less.

I'm so glad some think that illum spam isn't an issue anymore.  Played against an Advent today.  The results were predictable.  I saw his illuminator spam coming well before it got there.  I had fast-teched to kodiacs.  He rolled in with 30 illums, I had 15 kodiacs at that point.  As soon as contact was made, about 4 of my kodiacs evaporated instantly (to front beams, not side beams) and I said to myself "this ain't enough HC" so I pulled everything and let him have that planet.  I sat one planet back with several repair bays, 2 capships, plus pumped more HC and also carriers with fighters in case he brought bombers.

He didn't need carriers with bombers.  He just waltzed into my next planet after he took the previous one, and this time he had guardians.  The battle started, he mashed repulse on his guardians, and I mashed the "quit" button.

When will the damn Advent be brought into line?  Ever?  If so, how long is it gonna take?  Better yet, what are we as players gonna do about it?  Can we all get together and agree to only host "NO ADVENT" games?  What about deciding as a group that each person who encounters illum spam or repulse abuse will just instantly mash the quit button?  What about everyone agreeing that if one person chooses Advent in a game (or goes random), everybody just chooses Advent?  Any ideas?  Someone?  Anyone?

I am utterly and completely SICK to death of Advent.  I see Advent, I literally want to throw up.  You know what I think about Advent players?  I think they are PUSSIES who can't win without playing with a blatantly OP faction who everybody knows is bugged, even the devs.  My question is, why do we players continue to tolerate Advent abuse?  Are we just sadists who like pain and abuse?

I mean, maybe some of you guys just have big buttholes, but I sure don't.