Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

▼

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile               Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike            lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                  Kitkun                 Agent of Kharma
                                                    Hrabandur               -Ue_Carbon          Qu4r 
                                                    CrazyElectron            Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

 

No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,704,837 views 913 replies +3 Loading…
Reply #426 from Sins Forums Top

Yae to buff scramble bombers.  (Can you add options for microphasing aura and replicate forces as well?)

Yae to buff Evacuator colonize.

Reply #427 from Sins Forums Top

CAPITAL SHIPS

Buff Battleship Class (Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

Increase hp/shields/armor?            Yay

Increase DPS?           Yay

Buff Gauss Rail Gun?          Nay

 Re-work Animosity?            Nay          

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?          Yay

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

Buff Scramble Bombers?                              Yay

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

Increase AM regen?            Yay

Increase maximum AM?                               Yay

Increase Dunov EMP range?                             Nay

 

 DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Buff Deliverance engine

Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?     Yay

 

 

 

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #428 from Sins Forums Top

Nay to am regen and yay to max am and emp charge.

Let me explain deciever about the dunov.You probably read my post but the dunov fails as a support ship because it cant support itself.All other healing support abilities apply to the support ship.How long would a progen last if it didnt heal itself or a skirantra?Same applies for a dunov.It will never even get to use its shield ability because a level 3 dunov will be first target.In that case its only support will be the amount of time it takes to die before your other caps get killed.

Reply #429 from Sins Forums Top

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 No Preference-

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-

 

I would also like to suggest some buffs to the Antorak for voting.  Buffing the damage/healing slightly (If you need statistics then 200/350/500, or something in that ballpark...) and then reducing the AM to 50/45/40 (these would be different suggestions)  

Then I would like to suggest making Subversion affect SC build rates as well.  The above would give a lot more use to the Antorak and we might just see it in battle.

Reply #430 from Sins Forums Top

Mindseye- Thats why people get 2. No I understand what you mean. And while I think I'd like that, problem is since its instant it can be spammed. Imagine 2 dunovs each able to heal eachother and themselves. It'd be a LOT harder to kill them if they can double up on themselves. The Skirantra and the Progen don't stack so theyre limited with the speed of their heals, having two or more of them doesnt necessarily mean they'll live longer (although most of the time it does). Not being able to target itself leaves a weakness to the ability (especially coupled with flux). On the other hand, being able to target itself would probably dramatically increase the Dunovs utility, so I'll put it up there, and if it is changed, I hope to see more Dunovs. More I think about it, the more it seems acceptable to me.

Volt- good ideas. Especially the subversion change, I think making that a more general utility ability (and not something youd only cast in an enemy planets gravwell thats producing units, of which each player usually has only a few) would make it much better, and make the antorak desirable for fighting carrier spam. Its also fair for vasari seeing as they do not have direct damage ant-sc abilitites like flak burst or bitch slap, so its not like Vasari are going to annihilate all enemy SC with a few abilities and then keep them down with subversion, Vasari will still have to kill enemy SC with actual units.

Reply #431 from Sins Forums Top

The generic buff to POH was my idea, but the buff to subversion was not.  It was mentioned elsewhere and I thought it would be good to bring it over to this thread since it seemed like a good idea.

+1 Loading…
Reply #432 from Sins Forums Top

Mindseye- Thats why people get 2. No I understand what you mean. And while I think I'd like that, problem is since its instant it can be spammed. Imagine 2 dunovs each able to heal eachother and themselves. It'd be a LOT harder to kill them if they can double up on themselves. The Skirantra and the Progen don't stack so theyre limited with the speed of their heals, having two or more of them doesnt necessarily mean they'll live longer (although most of the time it does). Not being able to target itself leaves a weakness to the ability (especially coupled with flux). On the other hand, being able to target itself would probably dramatically increase the Dunovs utility, so I'll put it up there, and if it is changed, I hope to see more Dunovs. More I think about it, the more it seems acceptable to me.
End of quote

Yes but its to expensive to justify 2 dunovs to make 1 ability useful.Besides you spend on 2 dunovs they cant do much besides heal each other.Its not like they deal massive amounts of damage.You have to have 2 just t make the ability useful and they both need to be at least level 3 to do it.Its just rediculious

Reply #433 from Sins Forums Top

Yay to all support except regen am rate nay to that

Reply #434 from Sins Forums Top

What do you mean by useless?  Either your dunov was the target, and you fall it back to a safe GW when you get below the 1500-1000 range, or something else was the target and you kept it alive while you whailed on the enemy's fleet.  Either way, dunov's all around purpose is fleet survivability, by keeping your shields up, and using EMP charge to cripple your enemy to kill them faster.  Besides that, if you look at the overall design of the ship, i don't see how it could realistically cast the ability on itself anyway.  (Yes, i know it could easily be programmed that way, but i'm already peeved at the lack of a visible hangar on the dunov, unlike all 3 of the others...)

-Exile(\/)

Reply #435 from Sins Forums Top

Actually, I think the hangar is on the side...

Reply #436 from Sins Forums Top

No, that's the Akkan.  believe me, i've spent hours trying to find the thing, it isn't there...unless i'm missing something...idk.  post a screenshot of it if you're sure.  But from what i've seen, the squadrons fly up into the bottom of the ship, and there's no hangar there.  And for the most part, squadrons tend to enter the ship relatively near their hangar...

-Exile(\/)

Reply #437 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CallenExile, reply 436
No, that's the Akkan.  believe me, i've spent hours trying to find the thing, it isn't there...unless i'm missing something...idk.  post a screenshot of it if you're sure.  But from what i've seen, the squadrons fly up into the bottom of the ship, and there's no hangar there.  And for the most part, squadrons tend to enter the ship relatively near their hangar...

-Exile(\/)
End of CallenExile's quote

Actually, the hangar is a little hole on the front:

I circled it in green to make it more obvious, because it is pretty hard to see.

+1 Loading…
Reply #438 from Sins Forums Top

. And while I think I'd like that, problem is since its instant it can be spammed
End of quote

Like i said a level 5 dunov is = to maybe 3 overseers.Overseers have an advantage because they heal the hull and we all know the hull is better than shields.They also reduce damage taken.Overseer can be out before a dunov even gets to level 5.

Reply #439 from Sins Forums Top

Done in a hurry, so I apologise for any spelling errors.  Interesting thing about the Dunov is that it, a former freighter, can house SC from level 1 but the Kol, a purpose built warship with a purpose built hangar, cannot.  Those dafty TEC Engineers :)

 

Haven't voted opn everything as I'm mostly a TEC player so I haven't had any experience with some items (eg. Deliverence Engine) being voted on.  I'm familiar with the more common issues and items though.

 

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

            Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                Yay


            Increase DPS -
                Yay
           
           
            Buff GRG -
                Yay

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
           
            Increase AM regen -
                Yay

            Increase max AM -
                Yay

            Increase Dunov EMP range -
                Yay
           
            Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable -
                Yay

Fighters
           
            Buff Fighters -
                Nay

Magnetic Clouds-

            Allow starbase deployment?
                Yay

Ice/Volcanic planets-
           
            Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
                Yay
(Currently colonising 2 mine ice/volc is silly because you can get the resources and extra tax income by colonise a terran/desert without having to research anything.)

Other-
           
            SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound") -
                Yay
(I'm sick of fleets jumping in and alarm bells going off, but for some reason the idiots working my phase monitoring software don't consider the GIANT SPIKY STARBASE, and constructor thereof, a threat)

Scouts-

            No nerf needed -
                Yay
Balance Scouts-
            Decrease Seeker Vessel HP/Shields/Armour -
                Yay
(Currently this vessel is way too much of a meatshield for its cost)

            Decrease DPS -
                Nay

            Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
                Nay
           
            Increase Jikara Navigator DPS
                Yay           

            Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
                Yay
(Currently the Jikara is unique in the scout class due to its ability to capture extractors and its cost in metal reflects this uniqueness.  This does not mean, however, that its comabt capabilties should be so sub-par to other scouts.  Maybe slightly subpar as it's carrying shock troops and needs to accomadate them as well as crew and weapons, hence also the higher supply cost, but not THAT subpar)

Ravastra Skirmishers-
           
            Increase DPS?
                Yay
           
            Decrease supply cost?
                Nay
           
            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                Yay

Thing to remember about the Vasari is not only is their technology 10,000 years old, but the TEC is the first coordinated, advanced and determined enemy the Vasari have faced during their flight.  As such, their manufacturing processes are not streamlined for mass production/war of attrition and so their ships are going to cost more due to less efficient production processes - they make up for this with special abilities.  What's happened, it seems, is that the power of these special abilities has been overestimated, leaving us with a lot of underpowered Vasari kit.  I think, the best way to help the Vasari reach the bar is to focus on higher DPS - they are a very warlike race, after all.

Reply #440 from Sins Forums Top

I say Yeah! for buff of Battleship caps, to see an example download and play the Distant Stars Mod, we buffed the caps especailly the Battleships, You dont want to mess with them unless you have a bunch of HCs, a strong Cap in your fleet, or a good group of bombers

yeah to scarmble bombers and vasari colonizer cap buff

 

as too the support

yeah to increase of AM regen and EMP range

nay to the rest

Reply #441 from Sins Forums Top

My idea is to buff subversion to slow down SC rebuild rates as has been already mentioned by volt. Buff support caps yay to all. However, an alternate buff is to make subversion slow down or prevent trade ships being rebuilt which will hurt the enemies' eco.

Reply #442 from Sins Forums Top

I already mentioned other stuff, but you haven't posted it...  Anyways, here is the new data...

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Nay-

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-

Reply #443 from Sins Forums Top

I already mentioned other stuff, but you haven't posted it...
End of quote

Its easier for me to do it in blocks. I usually wait until several people have cast votes before I update.

Reply #444 from Sins Forums Top

thx for clearing that up about the hangar.  It's been bugging me since i got the game.  IDK why i've always seen the squadrons go into the belly of the Dunov, but w/e.  I'll have to check that out next time i play.k1

-Exile(\/)

Reply #445 from Sins Forums Top

About the dunov self-targeting heal, there is another support ship that can self-target besides mothership and skirantra.  The marauder can self-target phase out hull which boosts its shields.

QUESTION: How does the TEC currently counter repulse?  Cobalts cannot get in range of the iconuses (what's the plural on that? LOL).  Can donov EMP blast outrange an iconus repulse?  If not, should we ask for a small range buff so that it can?

As for the marauder, there are all kinds of cool ideas we could throw around.  Just brainstorming some off the top of my head that jive with the vasari theme, and "self-targetable":

subversion/counterinsurgency

- Puts phase jump inhibitor effect on enemy planet (or self-targetable to put one on your own?).

- Puts phase jump degradation effect (overseer effect) on enemy planet, (self-targetable?).

- Puts phase lane destabilization effect (starbase effect) on enemy planet (self-targetable?).

- Puts a phase stabilizer node on YOUR OWN planet (self-target).

About the last one, just think about it.  What is the one thing that really DEFINES vasari, if you had to go with one theme?  Phase stabilizers.  Now, what's the one thing you hardly EVER see in an online MP game?  Phase stabilizers.  Basically, the defining theme of vasari, and one of the elements that make them so cool, is rarely used in MP because if you are in rush spot or suicide spot you can't be teching 5 civ labs, and if you are in eco pocket you are throwing your money to allies, not fleeting and building phase stabilizers.

This would boost the maurader, and also allow the vasari more opportunity to be played how they should be played anyway.  Off the top of my head I don't think it would imbalance anything in regards to attacking an enemy faction in MP.  You'd need TWO of the most underused cap in the game to act as nodes between any two of your worlds, which is 6000 credits plus research/minerals/crystal.  And you'd still need level6 stabilize phase space to get into or out of an enemy world.  It would have zero detrimental effect on single player.

One unintended consequence I could see us debating is whether this makes it so people don't build phase stabilizer nodes on their starbases or on their planets ever again, because this ability somehow overshadows it.  But I don't think this would happen, because in single player it would still benefit you to actually build real phase stabilizers on your planets, and in multiplayer people aren't building phase stabilizers anyway, so there is nothing to overshadow.

Another thing I could see us debating is whether this effect somehow overshadows the level 6 stabilize phase space.  Yeah, it might very well.  But one thing I'd say is, stabilize phase space is more powerful, allowing you entry/exit from an enemy planet, where as this ability would just allow you to do it between your own planets.

It's an idea, anyway.

Reply #446 from Sins Forums Top

Dunovs emp range is 4500 and repulse is 5500 i think and the emp range buff is up there already sp vote it.I think it should be 8000.It has a long cooldown you might need 2 dunovs with high level emp  just to keep repulse down.

Reply #447 from Sins Forums Top

Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-

 

 

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-           

 

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

 

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-   

 

 

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay- 

 

FIGHTERS

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             

 

 

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-    

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-    

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

 

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-         

                                                  

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-  

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Nay-  

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-    

 

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                  

                                     Nay-       

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-      
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

 

                                     Nay-         

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Nay-         

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-      

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-        


 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

 

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-       

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Nay-     

 

                            Decrease Resource cost?

 

                                      Nay-       

 

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please add "increase Kortul Disruptive Strikes triggering chance" to capship buffs list :)

Reply #448 from Sins Forums Top

Something interesting about the Marauder-

On Distort gravity's infocard at the bottom it says

"Phase Charge up rate 700%" in red, as if it was supposed to act as a small PJI to enemy vessels within the abilities radius. But as far as I could tell through testing it does not work. If it was supposed to work like that, it would be excellent (seems like it would be a better fit on distort gravity than subversion) if it did.

I actually played with a Marauder as my first cap last night against MS. I had it up to level 7 and had built a trade economy and built 1 more lab for phase stabilizers. It was quite useful as I had set up a frontline base on a choke point asteroid and built a phase stabilizer there. I was able to pull my entire fleet back to the roid if my scouts detected any activity. Also, MS had a pretty nice fleet that he decided to try and run past my asteroid choke (because I had my similarly sized fleet+ SB and PJI there) As he passed through, distortion field allowed my fleet to catch up to his before it reached the otherside of the very small gravwell and pummel them while they charged up under the PJI, then it allowed me to jump (after 90% of his fleet had left) an get to the next system a good deal before any of his ships did, allowing me to deal his fleet a ridiculous amount of punishment (especially after jump degradation). He jumped three more systems before his fleet finally settled and fought back. I took heavy losses, but my marauders stabilize phase space allowed me to bring in reinforcements directly from my choke asteroid as they were being built. I crushed his fleet and then ran my back to the asteroid where I launched an assault on his planets. The first two were SB'd and PJI'd, but that wasnt a problem as I just ran my fleet around them with distortion field and jumped out ignoring the PJIs (such a lovely ability) and struck at the heart of his territory, all the while bringing in reinforcements directly from my asteroid, bypassing his front line defenses. Marauder ended up being my saving grace.

In most of the 4v4s and 5v5s seen online, the marauder doesnt get this kind of use (we were playing a 2v2 on a large single star i believe), but I can see it working like this rather well in longer games and in the feed spot. Might be a good choice for a second cap for vasari players in the feedspot, especially since phase stabilizers are only 1 lab more than Vasari trade ports. I'd like to see subversion buffed though, and distortion field function as a pji to enemy units in range as I think its intended to. (Might be something the devs were testing during the last patch that they accidentally left on the infocard)

Arthanis- IMHO Disruptive strikes works great, I ALWAYS put points into it if I have a Kortul. THe Kortul was my second cap in the game above, I sunk points into DS and Jam Weapons and DS was able to keep whichever enemy cap I targeted from casting its abilities more than a few times. After their initial reserves ran out, DS sapped away the AM they regenerated, and they couldnt cast anymore.

 

Reply #449 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Deceiver_0, reply 422
Updated- Support Caps are up there now.
Taking a look at DesConnors stats a few posts up, It seems quite ridiculous that the margin between Battleships and Carriers combined hp/shields is only 300-400 in favor of battleships. And between battleships and colonizers its much less. Its no wonder they aren't chosen as primary caps because their small margin of survivability is vastly outweighed by Carriers and Colonizers utility. I would DEFINITELY like to see their Hp/shields raised so that their utility IS their survivability. A small increase to their firepower couldn't hurt either, but they should certainly be the toughest Caps to kill.
End of Deceiver_0's quote

This.  THIS.   A THOUSAND TIMES, THIS!!!!

That said, me votes:

BATTLESHIP:

  • HP/Armor/Shield Increase? Yes.  NEW STATS (Listed as Hull/Shields/Armor):
  1. KOL:  3250/1500/7
  2. RADIANCE:  2500/2000/7
  3. KORTUL:  3000/1750/7

Notice the flat 7 Armor increase? XD

  • Increase DPS?  HELL yes.  By at LEAST a third (33.3333333...%)
  • Increase GRG Damage?  Sure, why not?  I'll go w/Volt's opinion on the damage amounts.
  • Rework Animosity?  Never knew it needed reworking, but, Okay!  (SIDE NOTE:  If this is about numbers affected, then at level 3, it needs to be Infinite, in my opinion, provided it isn't already)

COLONIZER CAPS:

  • Buff Egg's Colonize?  Yes sir!  I'd say change the build rate increase from 20/20/20 to 20/35/50.  
  • NEW IDEA:  I think Targeting Uplink needs to be reworked - in addition to an accuracy increase (which is pretty worthless by itself), I think it ought to increase the firing range of all ships in range (INCLUDING allies!).  This'd be a nasty counter to an Advent Battle Ball, as now the LRMs could possibly hit from outside Repulse's range.

CARRIER CAPS:

  • Buff Scramble Bombers?  Sure!  How about deploying 1/2/3 squadrons while keeping the rest of the stats as they are?  Can you say...Fighter spam? XD
  • Buff Replicate Forces? Bwahahahaha... }:) Oh, YES!  Double it from 3 to 6, in my opinion.

SUPPORT CAPS:

  • Increase AM Regen?  I'm all for it - maybe 10% or so?
  • Increase AM Stores?  THIS depends on what gets implemented.  If Regen ISN'T implemented, it should be about a 20% increase.  If AM Regen IS implemented, though, I'm thinking probably no more than 10% (Probably closer to 5%, actually).  But, yes, in either case. :P
  • Increase EM Discharge Range?  Eh, sure, why not?  Fine by me.  Dunno how much, though.
  • Allow Shield Restore to be Self-Targettable?  Mmm...nah.  That defeats the purpose of making a Wolf-pack.
  • Allow Antorak's Subversion to affect SC?  Hmm...Could be useful.  I'll vote in favor of it.
  • Buff Phase Out Hull?  Depends on the buff, really. If we're just doing a damage/heal increase, as was suggested earlier, sure, go ahead.
Reply #450 from Sins Forums Top

Caps:

Nay

Yay to all the others.

 

:fox: