I don't think what you are describing is accurate.  Certainly quite a few of the folks on this list play together - our community is what, 75-175 people max?  That doesn't mean that they refuse to play without their buds. Perhaps I'm different in how I handle things, but while I very much enjoy playing in games with the folks on lagwars, I find I enjoy just hopping into pugs.  Anyway, bringing specific criticism towards individual players would be the way to go if you think anyone in the list is useless without vent/only playing with their buds, etc. 

Another thought - I don't quite see why a few of you folks that simply play this game "for fun" ...

...would really care if there is a list where players rate other players.  I assume this would have little impact on you and your fun having ways...

Anyway, there's no intention of looking down on folks, at least for my part, so I do apologize if you feel that this is coming off this way.  You are welcome to participate, of course, but this list does create specific definitions for the tiers.  Cinder's definition is simply quite generic - "tier 1 = play damn good and for fun.  Not like its your job."  What does play damn good mean and how does one play like its your job? 

Most of the tier 1 players play primarily in house games.  When we pick up random people to join us and fill slots, we usually balance out the teams.  Does that mean we occasionally don't feel like catering to a bunch of 500 game 50-60% ppl when we only have 3 of us and can't evenly distribute anyway?  Yes.  

What always makes me laugh though is when a random joins and says "oh the other team is a premade, no thanks" when we've split our ranks in half.

I've also seen you join multiple times and leave prior to balancing Karebears.  The reason you don't see it is because you choose not to.

Also, 5 people currently on the tier 1 list either don't have a microphone or just don't normally get on ventrilo.  Many games we all play in the same channel (both teams) and chat about whatever, or else we simply don't talk much at all.  So no, vent is not required.  For the most part it serves as a better form of the in-game chat system with the private messages to see who's on, and a list of people in rooms to see who's playing.  

ZOMG!!!  DRAMMAS!!!     Well it does go without saying that I've beaten tier 1s when they've been caught pugging without their teammates.  They know who they are  But, whatever...

But seriously though, some of the guys in tier 1 I really do believe should be up there; they do simply stand out from other players imho.  If you've played against them, you'll know what I mean.

E.g. maybe a bad example, but I played a game against lord orion (unranked), teseer (tier 2), kitty (tier 2) and captain taco (unranked), and I had ABorn (tier 2 for all intents and purposes), Brandon_Varn (unranked), myself and some random noob with 30 games and a 50% win.  

On paper it looks pretty balanced.  No offense to the players of course, but was an absolute stomp and I was accused of stacking my team (yes...with a noob on my team ). 

Then a couple of days later I have Brandon_Varn and ABornExile again on my team, and I play against Mcshane, RAWRRR and Mithrander.  We are completely stomped.  

I felt I put up a bit of resistance in the beginning and I get pretty much the only kill my team gets.  But yeah, we are completely outplayed.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say in as non arrogant a way as possible, is in general most tier 2 players (except a few really) don't give me crazy amount of difficulty in balanced games, but I feel a lot of the tier 1s I can definitely say are better than me right now.  

Do i give you crazy amout of difficulty? jk

If you let me pick all six players by team then I can  pretty much guarantee a win against the Tier 1 players 9 times out of 10, based on the current list.

That has less to do with the level of Tier 1 and more to do with the hazy line between top Tier 2 and Tier 1, and the large element of Tier 2 who might be individually strong but aren't confident in close teams. 

Forum issues, let's see if this posts three times :/

I agree with Stanlord being a tier 2. I think he is one of the best puggers out there atm I always ask him to join vent and he responds with "I will never convert to the dark side!"

ok - stanlord to tier 2. 

Addding GM-Mithrander to tier 1 per previous discussion.

I think when we revamp the list, the tier 1 list will be really thinned out so that tier 1 is really the absolute best.  Should be some exciting debate

I'm planning on watching aBornExile's replay in the next match re: tier 2 status. 

YES, I'M SO HAPPY PACOV!

You have made my day.

Now I can go celebrate tonight. If I sound funny on vent, it's because I was celebrating.

Removed due to inactivity > 30 days:

• gL-Idealopamp
• Auroson1c
• DG-Thundershock
• nzac
• Ragarth
• shade
• Shinobinomono
• Mooks67

^I miss them all so much... Please contact me if any of you are still lurking around

PS - Magnus changed his name to capital GM-MAGNUS333 

hmm I think a tier 1.5 list would be possible now. There is enough of a player skill diversity in the tier 2 list that it can be split into two seperate lists.

I think we should consider making tiers for best players of a certain DG. This would put into perspective were players like Teseer and Maxsteel rank up. Perhaps only the top 5 players of the selected DG.

Based on current replays on dg replays and the current people in tier 2, I really don't think there is much of a question here about ABorn,

Yeah Mith on tier 1 pretty much makes sense imho based on the current people playing.

Thanks for the nomination Primz

Congrats to Mith, best ereb i have played against

here is my 2 cents on the current tier 2 list. I think there are some players that really do out shine most others on the tier 2 list but might not be that tier 1 status (as of yet). imo guys like soccer, shred, jona, celmare, naur....... seem to always be solid players in every game i have played with them and i can't remember seeing them get just totally worked over. on the other hand i have seen some other people on the tier 2 list get fixed (more than once in some cases). As a currently ranked tier 3 player i know my 2 cents really are pennies (worth less than the metal in them) but i would agree that there is enough diversity in the play of the tier 2 players that you could look at splitting the list some how. maybe ranking by DG is a good idea, but perhaps that should be a different list cause you know there are going to be  tier 1 players ranked in the top 5 for multiple DG (I think that is the point of being tier 1)

Yeah, don't take me off unless you really want to. I'm going to be back.

I don't belong on any high end list, I make plenty of mistakes.  But my thoughts are from playing with a few "tier 1" guys/gals and seeing them treat this game like it has a retirement plan.  Some pass secrets on how to allegedly trigger procs, etc.  Things that may well be bugs, for all I know.  Use programs that tell what others have in items.  I straight up consider that cheating.

But I agree with others.  Throw several tier 1 players in a PUG, and they are a liability.  Put some other tier 1 in a PUG, they shine and lay waste to all before them. 

I suppose my post looked angry, but I meant it with humor and a little sarcasm.  Getting on vent makes me realize some really are in their mom's basement, yelling for meatloaf, while performing a mindless, immutable gameplay.  There is no adaptation, no true skill.

I don't want to leave on that point, though.  There are some that are awesome.  That are communicating, even in PUGs, with "they got the upper hand, we need to pitch in for XP 2" or some such.  Or rallying the team toward a strat that will deal with all Tier 1 DGs with maximum, mindless builds.  That's fun

In fact, the only fun I truly have with DG anymore is pure random games.  Nothing is better than having a crazy DG list and rallying your team behind a plan.  When Reg, Reg, QoT pwns Ub, Ub, Tb... and all were good players, it's pwnsauce.  Put randomness in the gears and you see a lot of players revert back to "me me me", while others shine

Maybe I should start a "Random PUG tier list"?  That would be interesting. 

^I'm so confused as to who you're referring to in Tier 1 because none of them sound like they're playing in their mother's basement, except Mith because he's 16 so he has to live with his mom.

Thanks for your response there, Cind3rs - I appreciate it. 

Actually, you probably qualify for tier 2 here.  Anyone played with Cind3rs recently and have some feedback?

I'm not a fan of people sharing exploits in the game.  I believe I am personally aware of all of them, don't practice any of them, and don't share the how to's.  Our community is so small and we've had so many freaking jerks.  The last thing any of us want is to see are bastards desyncing games or using any of the other exploits out there. With regards to programs that tell what others have for their items... there is a mod that enables you to see your teammates' kit... if that's what you are referring to, please head over to the modding forum to check it out.  Most of us use that one.  The mod doesn't show you what your opponents have... just teammates.  I'm not aware of a mod that shows your the enemies kits. 

Ah - its all about variety.  I've gone through many similar fazes.  Currently, I'm really enjoying pugging.  And at that, in any gamestyle.  All random is great and mixes things up nicely.  On a side note, I'm pretty sure the lagwars crew went through a big all random period as well.  Balance the teams amongst the lagwars folks, choose all rand, and give it a shot.

We'll also do ridiculous teams against whatever the other team wants  Like tb / reg / beast or da / reg / tb.  It's very hard to pull a win off with the latter lol, but there have been close calls.

I've actually seen more variety in Lagwars games than when I pugged all the time.  When I pugged it was all about playing all tier 1 chars.  While that still happens in a few games for me now, reg / tb / da / occ get a LOT of playtime in our games.

Well you kind of make Occ a tier 1 dg,  Im still having trouble against him because I haven't found good counters to a 6khp occ that has crazy burst dmg =(.

Scroll back about 10-20 pages and you will see that I said I am neither tier 1 nor tier 2 so obviously tier 1.5 isn't a new idea-- that being said, I don't really care what list I am on if any, cause I suck quite often for varying reasons that would make me tier 7 for a day. 

But, I do appreciate the purpose of the list-- in that at least here I found the current group of guys that I play with now, some on skype, some on teamspeak, and some on vent (vent being the drug of choice)-- so that as long as the servers are up we can get some fun games going and always be mixing and matching (hardly ever stacking ) because the game is about fun.  I'm pretty sure no one on vent cares about win % anymore, so if you want to become part of the most fun I've had playing Demigod since the beginning of the game, join up. 

P.S.  Shred_demon might be tier 1.... I'm just saying.

Annnnnnnndddddddddddddddd    resume previous discussion....  Ready, go.

spit : (

Also, ya it's been argued that Occ is a tier1 demigod for cataract if played to his potential (but if he's not, he's not nearly as good as any other tier 1 char played at the same level).  

If you knew how to play TB that would help.

There is another counter, I shall keep my lips sealed though.

Well the obvious two are an ice TB to screw up his cooldowns and waste his movement speed and the other one is sedna's mighty silence.  Doing that makes oc players cry 

I didn't want to mention TB, he's like my worst enemy