Medically speaking, most communicable diseases are in the infectious stage before symptoms appear, so receiving care sooner does not really do anything for the spread.  I understand your point, but do not agree that any kind of universal health anything is going to mitigate contracting measles or chicken pox.

Another point to consider is what you are going to do with those that "opt out".  The only solution the government has proposed is criminal prosecution and internment.  The reality of the issue is that there are going to be some that simply refuse.  And they will be arrested, fined and in some cases inprisoned.  So in essence, the government has just made living a crime.

No law can force 100% compliance (that is why we have prisons).  Nor will this one.

I wish to know how went the H1N1 vaccine distribution in the USA (or at least, the states that you lived in). Was it efficient? Did all people that wanted a vaccine got one? Who did the distribution? Did you had to pay?

I agree - that's the question that should have been debated all along.  The notion that we require a nationalized health care system in order to adequately deal with contagious infectious diseases is ludicrous IMO.

CF - Cluster flop!  Big time.  By the time they got the vaccines to be distributed, the danger (scare mongering) had passed and not many actually ran to get it (there was a lot of small panic in the beginning when it was obvious that the vaccine just was not there).

So hard to say if everyone who wanted it got it.  I know that a very small percentage got it in time to do any good.  Fortunately like most other scares, this one was way over hyped.

(Many places had it free, but then they did not have it long.  Most places had it for a nomimal fee - $7).

I see. Well, over here in Quebec, the government administrated the distribution all around, and while there had been some problems initially, they eventually developped an efficient system. I think that within 2 weeks of making the vaccine available, everybody that wanted to get vaccinated got vaccinated. In.. november, I think..

Something good to be said about government-run programs

Edit: Got vaccinated freely. Forgot to mention that.

The government (CDC) ruined it here as they handle vaccines, although many private practices where able to procure some for their patrons. This was just a taste of what it will be like with government run health here.

Edit: Never got the vaccination, so paid zero and I didn't have to pay 40%+ in taxes either. Of course that may be subject to change in the future.

Correction: Canadian Government Run Programs.  And you wonder why we do not want the government running anything more down here???????????

There is a big difference between distributing 30 million doses and 300 million doses.

Anecdote time:  Back in 95, just after CD readers took off, I was doing a IFB for 3500 computers - Windows or Macs - whomever won.  We based the Specs on what each could supply, and had to dumb down the specs to read "dual speed CD Drives" (that should tell you how long ago as well).  Why?  Apple could not quote a Quad Speed Drive (they were readily available in the marketplace at the time).  So I asked them why not?  Their answer - It is one thing to outfit several thousand computers with the newer technology.  It is another to buy millions for your product line.

Ditto.  But then I never get a flu shot.  maybe when I get REALLY old.

Correction: Quebec-government run program. We aren't crazy ennough to try to impose a uniformised system through all of our territory. We are still 1/10th of the USA, pop-wise. That's still an average of 5 states, more if we don't count the big 3.

No there isn't. Since all administrative procedure has to be executed on the local level, you need to rely on the local governments who are meant to be organised to deal with their own population. No way somebody in Texas can organise distribution in New York (or vice-versa).

Earlier in this thread I posted a link to an article entitled Waterloo, authored by David Frum who among other things *was* a "fellow" at the tobacco lobbyist cum global warming denialist, American Enterprise Institute.

I say *was* because apparently the Waterloo piece sufficiently annoyed his "fellows" over at AEI that they fired him.

Well not so much fired him as asked if he would consider being associated with the "institute" on a "nonsalaried basis".

Mr. Frum declined. Based on the earlier response to his article in this thread most folks here will be overjoyed.

I really love it when lamprey eat their own young.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/frum-forced-out-at-conservative-institute/

Glad you're happy, Mumble.  It's a good state of mind.

So you'll be wearing your bib this November?

But speaking of eating their young it will be interesting to see how the teabaggers will fare versus more normal Republicans and how well either side will emerge from what appears will become some very bitter primaries for you. Remember NY23?

In any case while it's inevitable some margin will be lost in both house and senate an actual change in majority is unlikely and even if it does occur so what? Are you expecting a veto-proof majority? If that were to occur then that would really be something but if you're predicting that then you better be prepared to eat some crow.

You're stuck with this bill and your hopes of repeal or your dreams of it being found unconstitutional are pie in the sky. But feel free to hope and pray and cry and click your heels together while saying there's no place like home three times and good luck with that.

We keep this up and it will be the government of 3 legged left handed red haired people.

The assumption there is that it is handled on the local level.  Yes, some federal programs are administered that way (very few some), but most have the heavy hand coming from DC.  They have this myopic belief that they know more than any local yokels so must administer it from DC, regardless of actual past results.  This was no different.  The feds decided who got what when.  The local doctors and nurses gave the shots, but then, they could not do that until they got the vaccine.

That would be you and your party right?  Perhaps if you can eat your own.  You sure do not have 2 brain cells to rub together to enter into an honest discussion.  But then racists are hard put to debate rationally, instead trying to use polemics to incite a reactionary response.

Have fun with your tea baggers.  Don't get AIDS though.  It will not be covered until 2014.

You *still* talking to yourself?

Aaaaaand the forum just became less attractive

You bet. Give my regards to you new Senator.

Not until 2012.

Guess so - close minded bigots and racists can't understand multisylable words.  I willl see if my 2 year old can talk down to your level.

Cikomyr - speaking of the devil (the H1N1 Vaccine) this just hit the wire.  Pretty much sums up my opinion (except their stupid statement about it being a sucess) - Report: More Than 70 Million Doses of H1N1 Vaccine May Have to Be Discarded

Just returning the favor!

"Did we (the government) do as well as we would have liked to? (HELL) No, not at all," Dr. Anne Schuchat of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. "But the country (private heath care) did an extraordinary job of responding (even with poor government handling).

Note: My additions in RED to annotate what Dr. Schuchat couldn't say.

Tell me. Why is your government so inneficient?

Seriously, what makes it so impotent compared to other countries' who managed to have a very efficient and universal distribution of the vaccine to anyone who wanted it? And I am not talking at the federal level, but also at the local levels.

I think that instead of having people who would work to make things more efficient, you have people who work to simply get rid of the government's potency (with little result). So you end up with a clumsy central government.

For a confederation, you sure are centralised. *sigh*.

It was designed that way.