The Mosque, Ground Zero, and the President

The Questions, Issues and Postures

from JoeUser Forums

I am amazed at the alacrity with which President Barack Hussein Obama wades into controversies, stirs up debate and quietly retreats as if everything is back to normal. The mosque at Ground Zero, the site where the Twin Towers stood until that fateful day in September, is not one which is covered by the First Ammendment. The context in which freedom of religion was established in the US constitution was one that was esentially set within the limits of Christian sectarian and doctrinal divisions which were rife in the late eighteenth century. The situation now is far different. The Twin Towers were brought down by men who were motivated by Islamic notions of jihad and the 3,334 men, women and children who died on that day were victims of a brutal terrorist rampage. The victims included all major religions of the world and if there is nay religious building on the site or an associated site it must honor all major faiths whose adrents died on September 11. A mosque close to Ground Zero would be a trophy of victory and it was insensitive on the part of President Obama to say that a Mosque at that site would be in conformity with the First Ammendment.

I do not understand why the First Ammendment is invoked in a straight political battle. The City Council of New York cannot treat the site of the Twin Towers as one covered by Municipal zoning regulations and state laws. It has a significance that transcends the historical moment of today and any muslim structure close to or in proximity to the hallowed site will be an insult to the victims who came from all the major faiths of this planet.

I think eventually the first ammendment issue wil die down and better sense will prevail.

 

mosque ground zero obama twin towers new york
14,466 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

I am amazed at the alacrity with which President Barack Hussein Obama wades into controversies, stirs up debate and quietly retreats as if everything is back to normal.
End of quote

I have to ask you why?  Why are you surprised?  Could it be your perception of him as being so intelligent?  And how could someone so smart make such mistakes?

I think eventually the first ammendment issue wil die down and better sense will prevail.
End of quote

It is not a first amendment issue.  No one is claiming they cannot build there (and as you point out, neither is Obama).  It is about sensitivity.  No one is suing the muslims over the mosque (or the city zoning board).  They are however using another aspect of the first amendment - freedom of speech - to voice how they feel it is insensitive to the memories of those who died there.

In the end, Muslims can voluntarily move the mosque (they have refused to consider that), the citizens of NY can enact a law banning religious structures so close to the site (it is called zoning and is perfectly constitutional), or the zoning commission can reverse its ruling, declaring the building currently on the site to be historical and thus ending the controversy.

As for eventually die down - eventually we all are dead.  The question is not "eventually" but how long is the "eventually".

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

I like how there is misinformation about how this is about the 1st Amendment as was stated its not.

If Iran gets this nuclear plant up and running you can say its game over for Obama.  NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES AFTER THAT!

We'll end up loaning Israel several B-2 Spirit Stealth Bomber and call it a day

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

If Iran gets this plant up and running they'll be no way for Obama to talk or teleprompt his way out of it.  There's no way to put a good spin on that for this could be a major Waterloo.  Was my point on that last comment.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

I have collected some interesting opinions about the mosque and will write about it shortly.

It's too much for a comment here.

 

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

This is just another Obama blunder where his honesty slipped out and then he had to retract what he said because he's not man enough to stand up for what he truly believes in. Of course the man is really good at going around the country telling people how he has not been able to fix the problems of this country because of the previous administration.

Most people are not as dumb as the President or most politicians for that matter think they are, we all know this is not about freedom of religion, it's about respect, it's about building a Mosque near the site where thousands of innocent Americans died at the hands of people who are related to such a religion and this is seen as planting a flag on the battlefield after defeating the enemy.

In the end, Muslims can voluntarily move the mosque (they have refused to consider that), the citizens of NY can enact a law banning religious structures so close to the site (it is called zoning and is perfectly constitutional), or the zoning commission can reverse its ruling, declaring the building currently on the site to be historical and thus ending the controversy.
End of quote

What about the Union builders, can they be forced to work if everything is approved and there is nothing legal to stop this mosque from being built?

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

What about the Union builders, can they be forced to work if everything is approved and there is nothing legal to stop this mosque from being built?
End of quote

Work stoppage is an option, but not a good one.  Eventually some politician will get a court to order it.

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Work stoppage is an option, but not a good one. Eventually some politician will get a court to order it.
End of quote
We'll end up loaning Israel several B-2 Spirit Stealth Bomber and call it a day
End of quote
I have to ask you why? Why are you surprised? Could it be your perception of him as being so intelligent? And how could someone so smart make such mistakes
End of quote

Yes, Obama is a gifted politician and is qiute smart as politicians go. You do not become the President of the USA unless you have what it takes. Anyway, I feel that he could have kept quiet on this issue.

Loaning stelth bombers would be a mistake.

The Unioins cannot be allowed to decide on the building through workstoppage.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yes, Obama is a gifted politician and is qiute smart as politicians go. You do not become the President of the USA unless you have what it takes. Anyway, I feel that he could have kept quiet on this issue.
End of quote

So you believe in the myth as well.  Ever seen the movie "Dave"?  In it a simpleton is made to look like a genius.  how?  Teleprompters.  Have you listened to Obama when he was not using one?  If so, do you still claim he is so intelligent?  Or just an average joe that was in the right place at the right time (I never said he did not have drive - and that is what it takes to make it to be president - drive and luck).

Sorry, I have actually listened to him when he speaks extemporaneously.  He is a blithering idiot!

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

Here is my take on the Ground Zero Mosque:

https://forums.joeuser.com/390982

Sorry, Bahu, I don't want to steal your thread, but it's too big for a comment. Everyone, feel free to discuss my article in this thread here if Bahu allows it!

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Dr, reply 8

Yes, Obama is a gifted politician and is qiute smart as politicians go. You do not become the President of the USA unless you have what it takes. Anyway, I feel that he could have kept quiet on this issue.
So you believe in the myth as well.  Ever seen the movie "Dave"?  In it a simpleton is made to look like a genius.  how?  Teleprompters.  Have you listened to Obama when he was not using one?  If so, do you still claim he is so intelligent?  Or just an average joe that was in the right place at the right time (I never said he did not have drive - and that is what it takes to make it to be president - drive and luck).

Sorry, I have actually listened to him when he speaks extemporaneously.  He is a blithering idiot!
End of Dr's quote

He is well educated and went to an elitist ivy league school.  He was the top of the class and have gone to and seen prestigeous schools its all one big orgy of competition.  I think very few people on those campus are truly secure in themselves or what they accomplished.  Obama, may not be a genius but he also isn't a simpleton, though I do understand your point, Doc.

Quoting Bahu, reply 7


Loaning stelth bombers would be a mistake.

End of Bahu's quote

Why would loaning the stealth bombers be a mistake?  You know just about everyone in the West doesn't want Iran to go nuclear.  In reality, even Russia doesn't really want Iran to have it but likes the money AND the fact it can still seem like a relevant nation by thumbing its nose at the States.  Most Western nations are hoping under their breath that Israel will have the testicular fortitude to bomb it. 

Once, they get one plant what's the difference if they get another?

On a different note: has anyone taken a look at the history of the name of the said mosque?

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Why would loaning the stealth bombers be a mistake?  You know just about everyone in the West doesn't want Iran to go nuclear.  In reality, even Russia doesn't really want Iran to have it but likes the money AND the fact it can still seem like a relevant nation by thumbing its nose at the States.  Most Western nations are hoping under their breath that Israel will have the testicular fortitude to bomb it.

End of quote

Israel doesn't.

If Israel attacked Iran now, the world would go ballistic, and Israelis and Jews would be killed everywhere. Everybody would attack Israel and nobody would speak up against the attacks. The truth is that the Arabs would like to see Israel attack Iran because they know they would get rid of both of them (the Iranian nukes and the Jews) if it happened.

Decades of the deligitimisation have reached their goal: Israel won't stop Iran.

But the American-Israeli fleet that passed the the Suez canal to the Gulf must be good for something. Somebody has a plan... and for some reason the Israelis are part of it.

 

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

He was the top of the class a
End of quote

We do not know that since he has refused to release his transcripts.  he may have been a barely graduate.  he has more secrets than the CIA.

Obama, may not be a genius but he also isn't a simpleton, though I do understand your point, Doc.
End of quote

I never said he was, but I do contend that his reading from a teleprompter does not make him a genius, and that his free speaking has more errs and ahhhs than a room full of stutterers.  He SOUNDS like a simpleton.

 

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Dr, reply 12

He was the top of the class a
We do not know that since he has refused to release his transcripts.  he may have been a barely graduate.  he has more secrets than the CIA.


Obama, may not be a genius but he also isn't a simpleton, though I do understand your point, Doc.
I never said he was, but I do contend that his reading from a teleprompter does not make him a genius, and that his free speaking has more errs and ahhhs than a room full of stutterers.  He SOUNDS like a simpleton.

 
End of Dr's quote

At least we know that he can read and that if he used hooked on phonics (we wouldn't be able to know because of what you stated in the first sentence) that it worked out well for him :-)

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

p.s. Is dan referring to Lula who posts on here in the other post?

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

At least we know that he can read
End of quote

Ever the eternal optimist! :grin:

yes, Obama can read.  And read well!

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting the_Peoples_Party, reply 14
p.s. Is dan referring to Lula who posts on here in the other post?
End of the_Peoples_Party's quote

yes.  He had a big fight with her over Phyllis Schlaffly.  I rarely agree with Lula (coincidentally, she, Dan and I are all Catholics), but she busted him up in that one.