Does sins require a CAMPAIGN?

from Sins Forums

I have been playing sins diplomacy and c&c Kane along with each other. I can say one thing for sure. Whatever sins requires whether improved ai, new ships or Blah blah. It certainly does not require a campaign. Here are the reasons, why.

1. Both C&C and sins start with few units.

2.In c&c one can colonize new tiberium fields and start new structures. But your entire battle group along with enemy is

    cramped in one small map. While, in sins, you can colonize new gravity wells. You have to decide intelligently which is the

    best choke point for battle fleet placement.

3. In c&c, you can win usually  spam one big unit like mammoth, flame tanks or scrin air fleet. This spamming unit tech is

    ineffective in sins . There is a very good counter to each unit spam from bombers to Missile ships and heavy cruisers.

4. In c&c, you cannot retreat. You can do that in sins.

5. Each c&c map will start with pretty much the same story and objectives. In sins, situations are dynamic for gravity well.

   (i). Which is the best choke point. (ii). Which one is heavily guarded. (iii). Which one is soft corner.

6. In c&c super weapons are overpowered. In sins your well balanced fleet is your super weapon. Novalith, Kostru and advent

    super weapon are only supporting.

7. Each sins battle require to commission or decommission certain kinds of ship. This is the most dynamic feature of the

    game. It means that each battle requires a different battle-plan and thus a sin proper skirmish consists of multiple

   campaigns or battle stories .

8. Playing one sins small map with star bases. You can take days if not weak. In c&c it is a one day

8. There are only two game that match sins diversity in my view.

    (i). Total war series. (Love to have a turn based element in sins). Though fleet jumping between gravity wells are similar 

         sending fleets to different countries. Retreat is not always an option. In total war, can your fleet rest and recover?

         which is realistic and possible in sins.

   (ii). Supreme commander (very much similar to each other). Sins is superior because of random map generation.

 

 In the end sins do require colorful cinematic videos. They help you to involve much in game. I think that even fans can

 make them (though require a little effort).

 

 

24,841 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Does it require one? No. Are there a lot of people who would enjoy one? Yes.

I'm also a big fan of Command and Conquer and I agree there are many differences between it and Sins of a Solar Empire. I don't think those differences mean Sins should never have a campaign. According to a Q/A with Ironclad Games, a campaign will come, but not for a while (not in Sins 1 or in Rebellion though Rebellion will have some scenarios). I think Ironclad has the right idea to keep Sins 1 focused on the gameplay and promote the multiplayer. I also like their plan to bring us a campaign later. My friends and I, in addition to other voices in the community, look forward to a campaign. Not everyone wants one which is fine and that's partly why I hope they keep a skirmish option in the game for those who want to just jump in and build an empire like Sins 1.

As far as a campaign, the back story on Sins of a Solar Empire is really, really good. It gives us the interesting background of each race, but the history of the races and mystery hunting the Vasari has the potential to develop further. It could be a great novel, but that's just my opinion. The campaign would serve as a means for fans to immerse themselves in that story which would make the Sins universe more real and that gives me chills. While there are some very talented people in the community who can make videos, I personally want to see what Ironclad is capable of (in Sins 2).

Do we require one? No. Would adding a campaign be such a bad thing? Not really. It would breathe more life into that universe and allow us to feel like we're there. More importantly, it would bring more people to Sins 2 because I know a LOT of people who are big on reading lore and role playing. This would draw them in.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Nope, Sins doesn't need a campaign. But it would be nice to have one.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

So many people have clamored for a campaign that they should make one or at least make a campaign editor to satiate their fans' wishes.  Personally, I don't need a campaign since I only play against humans in online multiplayer, but that's not the case for the overwhelming majority of Sins players who seem to prefer playing against severely mentally challenged AI opponents, and they want a campaign.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

So many people have clamored for a campaign that they should make one or at least make a campaign editor to satiate their fans' wishes.  Personally, I don't need a campaign since I only play against humans in online multiplayer, but that's not the case for the overwhelming majority of Sins players who seem to prefer playing against severely mentally challenged AI opponents, and they want a campaign.
End of quote

I like to play against humans and AI. Right now, I'm just trying to become a better player. And as a beginner, I will tell you, the AI is pretty formidable. I would hardly characterize it as mentally challenged. Maybe when I'm more experienced, I'll agree with you. Also, just to clarify, there are plenty of people who enjoy playing against humans who want a campaign, so it isn't as simple as only those who play offline want a campaign.

Everybody wins. Those who want a campaign get a campaign, those who want to play online still get to play online, those who want a campaign and want to play online get the best of both worlds, and best of all, more people are drawn to the franchise. I know at least 7 people who will probably buy Sins 2 because if offers both. They love a good campaign and they love to play online. Personally, I'm good either way, but I see the benefits and I'm curious to see what Ironclad comes up with.

As an aside, if I sound like I'm in a bad mood it's because I am - having issues with an AI at the moment.

:S

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

May I point out that in Sins YOU are the Emperor (or whatever you wish to call yourself)?  As the Emperor, I won't have people in MY Empire giving ME orders about my next objectives.  I'M in charge!  Therefore, since any campaing done this way will in effect be a sandbox mode anyway, Sins does not need a campaign.  Scenarios could work, however.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

That's a good point, Zimat. I totally agree. When they build a campaign, hopefully it won't involve giving the player orders. Instead it would involve a sequence of events that you, as the leader of your empire, must deal with. Put simply, a campaign would be a formal presentation of those events (strung together by video cut scenes and briefings where they brief the leader - you - on what has developed).

For those who don't want to experience that, they still have solo or multiplayer. At least, that's my hope, but we'll see what happens. Like I said, everybody wins, and I'm sure they won't build a campaign that orders you to do anything unless they put you in the role of a commander who leads the empire's forces into battle. Personally I hope they keep you in the executive leadership role, but whatever they do, I know it will be good. :)

I see that there are some people who have concern about a campaign and there are no doubt others. That's completely understandable. Not everyone wants the same thing. A campaign is something new and a lot of us like what we currently have. Since I'm replying with a lot of positive feedback to a campaign, I probably look like the guy who is screaming for a campaign, but I'm not. I also like what we currently have. I just see the benefits of a campaign one day (for the reasons mentioned earlier in this topic) and I have complete faith in Ironclad to create something that appeals to a lot of people and expands on this great saga.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Another way to look at it is this. You may be Emperor of a small section to the TEC and you are given missions by the Coalition Council. The game can all you to either a, follow the mission and help the TEC b, go your own way and expand your empire or c, a mix of the two as you help the TEC but make sure you are in a position to profit. Advent and Vasari can follow similar lines of thought. This is how we work it out in our Sins DS mod Lore.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

They should add a pseudo-quest system like one sees in Elemental: Fallen Enchantress. There could be points of interest in certain sectors: Space Junk reveals a clue about some long forgot battle, A Dead Asteroid reveals a research facility containing a virus/rebel faction/artifact that requires further study/secret intel on a planned attack by your closest ally. An audio log plays to cue you in on the new mission and its purely optional objectives. 

Pursuing such objectives can lead to a great many advantages, but may also have serious ramifications with the other factions in your star system(s). It will certainly have an opportunity cost, but it would be a great addition even in multiplayer. The key would be to have the story told by audio so that it incurs minimal costs to your micromanagement. 

I don't think it will happen. If it does, as always, I offer my ideas freely and without desire for patent. 

 

They should also add random events.  :grin:

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I'd love to see what people could come up with if we had a dynamic and powerful campaign editor.  Maybe there would be space monsters and other random oddities.  One thing I've learned from my FPS experience is that game studios are good at building the framework for a game, but players and enthusiasts are best for giving it flesh (custom maps, mods, campaigns, etc.)

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

They should also add random events.
End of quote

@ seanw3: I hope they provide an option for random events as well. That's a great idea.

I'd love to see what people could come up with if we had a dynamic and powerful campaign editor.  Maybe there would be space monsters and other random oddities.  One thing I've learned from my FPS experience is that game studios are good at building the framework for a game, but players and enthusiasts are best for giving it flesh (custom maps, mods, campaigns, etc.)
End of quote

@ DirtySanchezz: I like your space monster idea. I too am excited about the new campaign editor. I have plans to learn the Unreal editor since I'm a big Unreal Tournament fan, but after falling in love with Sins, I have another editor to learn. In addition to the Ironclad campaign for Sins 2, I can't tell you how excited I am to see the campaigns created by the community using the new Galaxy Forge with event triggers. It's going to be awesome!

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Coridane, reply 4

So many people have clamored for a campaign that they should make one or at least make a campaign editor to satiate their fans' wishes.  Personally, I don't need a campaign since I only play against humans in online multiplayer, but that's not the case for the overwhelming majority of Sins players who seem to prefer playing against severely mentally challenged AI opponents, and they want a campaign.


I like to play against humans and AI. Right now, I'm just trying to become a better player. And as a beginner, I will tell you, the AI is pretty formidable. I would hardly characterize it as mentally challenged. Maybe when I'm more experienced, I'll agree with you. Also, just to clarify, there are plenty of people who enjoy playing against humans who want a campaign, so it isn't as simple as only those who play offline want a campaign.

Everybody wins. Those who want a campaign get a campaign, those who want to play online still get to play online, those who want a campaign and want to play online get the best of both worlds, and best of all, more people are drawn to the franchise. I know at least 7 people who will probably buy Sins 2 because if offers both. They love a good campaign and they love to play online. Personally, I'm good either way, but I see the benefits and I'm curious to see what Ironclad comes up with.

As an aside, if I sound like I'm in a bad mood it's because I am - having issues with an AI at the moment.


End of Coridane's quote

Ok when you guys are saying 'campaign' are you talking a sandbox style map or an actul 'campaign' in the traditional sense?

 

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

The topic is an actual campaign. It would expand on the current story of Sins and put the player in a position where they are characters in that story. I don't know how Ironclad plans to present it: the character (you) as the leader of your empire or a commander for the empire, but either way they present it, it should be amazing, and serve as another good selling point for the game. For some fans, it's critical, for others it's not, and for others like me, it's one more feature to look forward to.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

I just make up my own campaign in a text file for reference and play it out over several maps. Does it require a campaign?  No.  But it would be nice.   I'm thinking of writing a simple scenario generator for the web just to have a point-and-click system of creating a mission, but I agree that it would be cool to have some form of campaign in the actual game.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

If the developers make the Rebellion trigger system flexible enough (and can display text onscreen) I'm sure we'll start to see a few mods with good campaigns, created by the community.

Give us the tools and the community will do the heavy lifting, devs!

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Wrath89, reply 14
If the developers make the Rebellion trigger system flexible enough (and can display text onscreen) I'm sure we'll start to see a few mods with good campaigns, created by the community.

Give us the tools and the community will do the heavy lifting, devs!
End of Wrath89's quote


Indeed, I can safely say that if everything you said would occur, I for one would focus more heavily on modding SoaSE, rather than other games (I love writing, so custom story-lines and triggers would reboot me to AoE days; lots of fun).

+1 to the idea, please make this happen, devs! 

Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top

Just my two bits:  I NEVER play campaigns anymore on any game.  Just the single player skirmish type maps or multiplayer comp stomp games.

As long as there is a good AI and a good save feature, I'll approve of almost any game.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Fulano5321, reply 16
Just my two bits:  I NEVER play campaigns anymore on any game.  Just the single player skirmish type maps or multiplayer comp stomp games.

As long as there is a good AI and a good save feature, I'll approve of almost any game.
End of Fulano5321's quote

Wow. I though most people bought games so they can enjoy the story plot and the game play affecting the story plot.

Although I can see why, these days with MW3, and stuff, more often than not the story is weak with weak characters and plot that make TV shows more exciting but the problem isn't the game developers sadly. If the developers make the campaign too long people complaint that it takes them 20+ hours (Chrono Trigger is rumor to have more than 10 different endings) just to get through the single player leaving them with no time and just jump to multiplayer instead.

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ice27828, reply 17
Wow. I though most people bought games so they can enjoy the story plot and the game play affecting the story plot.
End of ice27828's quote

Haha no, and I rarely play multiplayer either. As long as the game has good gameplay that's all that matters, I don't care whether they use a story to wrap the gameplay around, but I rarely care about the story itself per say. Honestly my favorite games tend to be at least partly sandbox (pretty much every RTS with a skirmish feature, minecraft, TES, used to play a lot of simulator/tycoon games), where the story is either not present or can be completely ignored.

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Supreme Commander had a challenging campaign and great multiplayer capabilities.

Sins has the second. If you gave it the first, you wouldn't see the second disappear. So there's no harm in giving it the first.

Besides, there is a point to wanting the story fleshed out, whether it have characters (SC) or not (HW).

And yes, player made campaigns would suffice. It's like the mod of storylines. I have made and seen great campaigns made for SC by players. It wouldn't hurt to do the same here. Just add a new category under map selection that triggers said data pack.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

 homeworld was 1 of the best space rts games  (still is) becos the campaine peepol lurn to ply have feeling of beeing a real commander.  and becos u dont like it u dont wandt it budt hey its not a boudt u or me its becos peepol lurn to ply this game in a frently way i think becos no campain ty miss the mass comunety peepol are beeing overwelmt whit somenny buttons and options ty coing to pass the game ty alredy make the mistake of not putting in a campain in part  1.25 and 1.50 and 1.75 if ty are so creasy to not put it in the 2.0 ty cong to miss the poindt a cane, 1 ting is good ty are on steam nowe so lets hope ty put in steam argifmendts and steam cloudt and steam antiecheat and new download conten betetr server options no lagg and no ctd lets hope it enny way i like campains becos of the menny cheaters u see online  and yes in evry game are cheaters messing up for the  one who not cheating... enny way i happy ty make a new part ....

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Lol Draak, I only played the first campaign of SC2, btw I mean supreme commander 2, I just don't like the tech and the units of the Cybrant or the Illumates.

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, in my post, when I said SC, I meant StarCraft. I say SupCom for Supreme Commander. And the second one was weak on a lot of levels. I was not a fan, campaign or otherwise.