Anything being done about phase missiles in rebellion?

from Sins Forums

I suppose no one really knows for sure, as vasari haven't been added yet, but frankly in diplomacy phase missiles are one of the mroe unbalanced aspects of the current metagame atm.   Where most weapon upgrades go up to 30-40%, phase missiles are at a staggering 80% or so against shield mitigation capped cap ships and that doesn't even take into account overseers or the fact that phase missiles penetrate shield HP as well as the mitigation.

 

 

Honestly I'm really hoping that rebellion either gives counters to phase missiles(especially to advent who sorely need them), or gives equally powerful weapon upgrade techs to the other factions.

Honestly part of me kind of feels phase missiles should have the ability to penetrate shield HP or shield mitigation, but not both.

 

 

Well in anycase this has turned into a bit of a rant, but what I really mean to ask is whether the devs have said anything about whether phase missile balance is in any way going to be balanced in rebellion?  

24,919 views 28 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

we shall see :)  can't wait to see if this has been balanced in an innovative indirect way.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

The Advent do have a defense against Phase Missiles, I know since I have been tinkering around with them. But since I am not sure if I am allowed to say "how," I will leave it at this.

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

The bigger weapon issue with Visari is giving them an incentive to use NON phase-missile units.  Power aside, their tech tree and unit weapon types just favour maxing phase missiles are ignoring all else.  It's not good at all to have their tech path so rigid.  There's been many suggestions and thoughts on it before, I'm sure the devs are aware of it.  Lets wait and see what they've done.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

As far as I have seen, Vasari fighter squadrons no longer use phase missiles but use beam weapons instead. Looks rather cool if you ask me, and should help reduce their effectiveness. Bombers still use phase missiles though. Also I noticed the Vasari Rebel titan doesn't use a lot of phase missiles, it has other weapons that deal more damage than the phase missiles..

Hope that answers your question a little bit.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Making the fighters use pulse weapons makes all kind of sense.  Hopefully they did something with their HCs and Wave weapon upgrades.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius, reply 4
As far as I have seen, Vasari fighter squadrons no longer use phase missiles but use beam weapons instead. Looks rather cool if you ask me, and should help reduce their effectiveness. Bombers still use phase missiles though. Also I noticed the Vasari Rebel titan doesn't use a lot of phase missiles, it has other weapons that deal more damage than the phase missiles..

Hope that answers your question a little bit.
End of Teun-A-Roonius's quote

Yeah, the Kultorask seems to fire primarily big wave cannons and then phase missiles. It makes really cool sound btw, i suppose its one of its abilities, it sounds really creepy, the alien-tripod kind of sound from War of Worlds. Hopefully the Loyalist Titan will make similar sounds.

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Wow, thanks for all the responses guys.  That's a lot more information then I was expecting to be available(and much thanks to Yottsu for a ray of hope, if a bit of a cryptic one :grin:  ).  One more reason for me to look forward to when advent becomes playable in the open beta.  Seems like every day gets me more excited for rebellion.

 

 

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Yottsu, reply 2
The Advent do have a defense against Phase Missiles, I know since I have been tinkering around with them. But since I am not sure if I am allowed to say "how," I will leave it at this.
End of Yottsu's quote

Start with an Halcyon and Rapture using vertigo and Aura's.

When you get vertigo  to level 2 and 3 your cutting the damage done to you down to over 50% while the aura on both ships increases your defense vessels, illums and carriers damage output. Win win

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Also with regards to other options for the Vasari, on of the sub-factions appears to be getting a gentle(ish) nudge toward specializing in a different weapon type, while the other may love their Phase Missiles even more than before.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 8

Quoting Yottsu, reply 2The Advent do have a defense against Phase Missiles, I know since I have been tinkering around with them. But since I am not sure if I am allowed to say "how," I will leave it at this.

Start with an Halcyon and Rapture using vertigo and Aura's.

When you get vertigo  to level 2 and 3 your cutting the damage done to you down to over 50% while the aura on both ships increases your defense vessels, illums and carriers damage output. Win win
End of RiddleKing's quote

Are you sure aura improves strike craft's damage? According to the wiki it doesn't.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

The Rapture's aura gives a 10/20/30% boost to nearby ship's strike craft damage.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Yes just figured that out, I'm an idiot. I confused concentration aura with Amplify Energy Aura.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Mr., reply 11
The Rapture's aura gives a 10/20/30% boost to nearby ship's strike craft damage.
End of Mr.'s quote

That is for Trinity, not for Rebellion. I think it goes something along the lines of; level 1, 10%, level 2, 18%; level three, 26%; level four, 34%.

All of the Advent capital ships seem to do this.

Yea. They got nurffed... Why Stardock, why? X(

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah I noticed they tweaked the abilities of the cap ships so that level 4 in rebellion is equal to level 3 in diplomacy, yeah it sucks :/

I THINK though, that you can level the ultimate ability to level 2 though now, not sure if it makes it better then level 1 from diplomacy though yet.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ChaosMaster130, reply 14
I THINK though, that you can level the ultimate ability to level 2 though now, not sure if it makes it better then level 1 from diplomacy though yet.
End of ChaosMaster130's quote
Yeap, the superabilities can be upped one level, making them significantly more devastating. Though not all level 2 supers are that much better.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Do tell, how does Level 2 Resurrection work?

Does it revive two capital ship crews?

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Mr., reply 16
Do tell, how does Level 2 Resurrection work?

Does it revive two capital ship crews?
End of Mr.'s quote

Less antimatter and a shorter cool-down. It is so useless! At least give us the ability to return exp to destroyed titans that get rebuilt!

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

Well then, 4 Malice, 4 Shield Regeneration, 2 Colonize for Progenitors by the sound of it.


(Assuming you can actually get it to level 10.)

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Back to phase missiles, tec have Hoshiko's and its economy spam to win against phase missle fleets,

Vasari vs Vasari is usually the Carrier caps repair cloud, overseers and phase missiles to counter phase missile fleets.

 

If you take a look at all the races you start to see something peculiar- vertigo, shield projection, deceptive illussion and increased fire power for advent and instead of desciples use defense vessels(main) mixed with illums and carriers (use repulse to defend carriers and defense vessels)

I mean vertigo already does more than half of the job at level 3 and with projection just means your getting almost no damage while repulse is just an assurance-let alone those ships shooting ghost illum ships.

 

all the races have defenses against phase missiles and advent have a variety--where vertigo keeps their fleets alive for them to work.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting lbgsloan, reply 3
The bigger weapon issue with Visari is giving them an incentive to use NON phase-missile units.  Power aside, their tech tree and unit weapon types just favour maxing phase missiles are ignoring all else.  It's not good at all to have their tech path so rigid.  There's been many suggestions and thoughts on it before, I'm sure the devs are aware of it.  Lets wait and see what they've done.
End of lbgsloan's quote

One of the problems is that the Vasari light frigate (Skirmishers) and heavy cruiser (Enforcers) are expensive in that they consume a large amount of fleet supply relative to what the other races have.  As a general rule, LRMs counter light frigates, but in the case of the Vasari, their light frigate consumes more fleet supply than the other races' long range frigates.  I know that they raised the costs of those two ships because of their self-healing ability.  Also, the damage buff for the Enforcer is way up on the military tree.  So by the time you to your 5th, 6th, (and 7th?) military labs so that you can max out that damage, you've already long-since upgraded the phase missiles.

In other words, the alternatives to the phase-missile based weapons just aren't that attractive.

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 20

One of the problems is that the Vasari light frigate (Skirmishers) and heavy cruiser (Enforcers) are expensive in that they consume a large amount of fleet supply relative to what the other races have.  As a general rule, LRMs counter light frigates, but in the case of the Vasari, their light frigate consumes more fleet supply than the other races' long range frigates.  I know that they raised the costs of those two ships because of their self-healing ability.  Also, the damage buff for the Enforcer is way up on the military tree.  So by the time you to your 5th, 6th, (and 7th?) military labs so that you can max out that damage, you've already long-since upgraded the phase missiles.

In other words, the alternatives to the phase-missile based weapons just aren't that attractive.
End of DirtySanchezz's quote

 

Expect Vassari Loyalists to change this. No i'm not saying how except that it's going to make their heavy cruisers into real scary littile fellas.

 

Also question for you sanchezz, where's that avatar pic from,. i've seen it somwhere before and can't identify it and it's bugging me :p.

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting KarlBar99, reply 21
Also question for you sanchezz, where's that avatar pic from,. i've seen it somwhere before and can't identify it and it's bugging me .
End of KarlBar99's quote
The Avatar is from the movie "Kickass". It's the little basass girl that got trained by her dad to become a merciless killing machine. Epic movie by the way. Sorry if I took away all the pleasure of answering him Sanchezz. :grin:

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius, reply 22

Quoting KarlBar99, reply 21Also question for you sanchezz, where's that avatar pic from,. i've seen it somwhere before and can't identify it and it's bugging me .The Avatar is from the movie "Kickass". It's the little basass girl that got trained by her dad to become a merciless killing machine. Epic movie by the way. Sorry if I took away all the pleasure of answering him Sanchezz.
End of Teun-A-Roonius's quote

I can still post a link to some You Tube videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqdAhBreGrY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYgxVgihyzI

 

Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top

It was fine movie. I usually hate the superhero comic-related movies and stuff, but this one was genuinely good and funny.

Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top

About skirmishes, they cost more because with thier cheap upgrades they become the best LF in the game.  They also do way better massed damage then the other LF's as is, having a higher base damage, meaning even better damage as the upgrades progress.  You don't see how good the vasari light weapons are because their phase missiles are even better(and are spammed a lot more).  The vasari have all the best weaponry, which makes sense.  Just build up a horde of 50 + skirmishers and face them off with another horde of another races LF (at comparable resource cost) and see by how large of a margin the skirmishers win by.