Actually, I wasn't commenting on the Financial cost of Space Exploration, but wondering where people who will be pushed out of the medical care system, and shelters, will go if Arnold gets his way?

Yeah, I got your comparison. That was just my way of steering the thread back to topic rather than becoming the 'government slashing programs' thread.

Back on topic: if they are planning serious space trips, it should be done in steps. First permanent space stations orbiting the earth, then some orbiting the moon, stations on the moon's surface and only after that, stations on othe planets.

I think it will happen because it *is* happening... at least for the Chinese. Strategically we can't have them more comfortable in space than we. They announced the same goals that Bush is said to be announcing a year or more ago.

If you think about it almost every major "wow" weapon we have relies upon satellite orientation. If those satellites are 'touchable', then we have a large gap to fill. I have seen reports that state with complete assurance that the next conflict between first-world countries will include some sort of attack or exchange in space.

As for why it is a good investment, space programs spawn immense innovation. We didn't just get Tang. Every time we find a new problem to overcome in space, that solution is available to us on earth for other purposes. It could be debated that materials research would be decades behind if it weren't for the US space program. So, I think it is not only a great thing to do, but necessary.

I have always wondered about them 'beaming' gathered energy back down to us on earth. It would be one of the few 'mining' efforts that wouldn't require the logistical nightmare of physically bringing the material back. I need to read up on the microwave transfer stuff.

"wow" weapons aside, what about Global Communications and everything that depends upon it, or GPS...

Travel, Shipping, Rescue, Weather hell the Global economy would falter for an extremely long time and fall hard enough I question if it would be able to get back up without those who hold control of the Sat's did not allow it.

Technological Hostages, a whole freaking planet... ( might seem a bit extreme, but if you really go through the lists, it would be the way to hold the world at a stand still if even for only a short period of time such as a few months up to whenever people could take back control, if they ever could )

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Well if you think about positioning Mirrors, Collectors and Beam Space side which would stay in Sun light 24/7 none stop and Collectors planet side as a first step. Power would be a moot issue once it was achieved, naturally it would evolve and other sources would come about. But that is something that they should be able to do and only funding and time would really be the issue. Of course the Energy Industries would throw a fit and hold it up forever and a day because they would want, no, demand to sap the planet of as much Oil and Coal as they could before their profits from the plants and such were cut off.

but, mmm, yeah it is an interesting and thought provoking subject which spawns many others

my concern is that the beaming of power might have disasterous side effects. Remember the bond movie diamonds are forever where the evil guy made a satalite to beem sun sown to earth to cause destruction. Most likely there would never be a person that would do such a thing single handedly, but there is the risk of some malfunction and the beam of power goes off course.

There have been concepts available for some time for putting a huge solar array on the day-side of the moon, and then sending the energy back down in the form of a microwave 'beam', but the thought is scary.

If I am not mistaken that is what used to get loose on me during Sim City 2000 and cut huge swaths through my city.

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Attacking satillites is a really scary thing. I forget what they effect is called, but at the moment there are enough orbiting objects that if one were to splinter, slamming into another, it could cause a chain reaction. The resulting billiard game would leave such a 'shell' of debris that it would take untold effort to get back out into space again.

If anyone did start busting satillites for fun or profit, they'd have to just tip them into the atmosphere, and not explode them. Kind of scary, though, considering how much now depends on them. I have a feeling that is why the EU is so interested in having their own.

Does anyone know how much orbiting junk there is? Don't know the numbers, but I read somewhere that it was a lot.

all i know is that its a lot more now then it was a hundred years ago

huge solar array on the day-side of the moon

There's no such as 'day side' on moon. It has its own day/night time same as earth. It's MUCH slower, however. The array would have to be movable, or You plant solar arrays all way around the moon.

what I think he meant was put the arrays on the side of the moon that faces earth. the moon doesn't spin around its axis so one side of the moon is always facing earth. if you give the arrays the ability to change their angle they could focus the suns power to earth most of the time. the exception would come when the moon is between the earth and sun.

There's no such as 'day side' on moon. It has its own day/night time same as earth. It's MUCH slower, however

much faster you mean. the moon turns like 2 or 3 times for every one earth revolution I think.

Nah, it is my understanding that while the moon rotates, it does so at a rate that it always presents the same "face" to a particular position on the earth. Sure, if the US had an array it wouldn't be able to beam energy to, say, Bulgaria, but once it returned over our heads the array would be rotated back into position. By "dark" or "night" side, people mean the side that you won't be able to see at a partular spot in the world.

Here's a description: http://www.jimloy.com/astro/moon4.htm

Kona: nope, I think a lunar day is something like 27 days.

It's confusing. If anyone has contrary material pipe up.



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It is confusing.

Moonn's rotation as viewed from earth is zero, I agree, which is useful for beaming down power to earth. Solar collectors would recive power only once a while, however, unless either array exends all way around moon, or the collectors is movable.

HMM oh yeah earth's face DOES rotate when you're standing on moon and watching earth.

I guess only possible way to beam power would be once a while, when station on earth is within view. Of course, when it's at edge, power beam would be getting trough a lot of air. Air can also deflect a little, depending on what type of power it is.
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If there is any 'Military' value in a Moonbase it will happen, no argument.
As for 'Peaceful' reasons .... not unless the private sector funds the project.
The Chinese 'Space Program', that will certainly give the black powder industry a boost, time to invest methinks ...... and I wouldn't like to be the poor sucker who has to 'light blue touch paper and stand well clear'!

I was actually hashing it out in my head when I figured what they hey and did some digging...

following link is from a story ran Aug, 11, 2003...
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/ssp-03b.html

solar energy on Earth and in space might be the first large scale space industry

by Arthur Smith New York - Aug 11, 2003 Energy policy is in the news again, with debates in Congress, statements from presidential candidates, consternation over our dependence on the Middle East for oil, and a California recall election traceable in part to energy supply problems for that state. Use of energy, whether fuel for transportation, electrical energy running the internet, or the destructive energy released in weapons, is central to our economy and security. It is with good reason that the technical term for energy use per unit time, "power", suggests control in the human world as well. Three actions taken now - working to reserve radio spectrum for power transmission, focusing on reductions in costs for space launch, and investing in space solar power system research - hold the promise of opening up vast new sources of power within the next 10-15 years

Be good if it happens.....might shut up the twits who think it never happened the first time

Actually i'm not so sure we did. Explain why the flag was waving/blowing when they shot footage of it on the moon and the moon is zero-gravity?

Explain why there was no blast crater where the lunar lander touched down but there was tons of pressure from the engines?

Explain why they showed a shot of the astronauts in one place and then shot them in another place that was supposedly 2 miles away and when the photos were superimposed the rocks and hills were exactly the same?

Explain the shadow discrepancies between the astronauts, the lunar lander and the position of the sun?

Explain how the astronauts survived the trip through radiation belt with little to no radiation protection?

Too many unanswered questions to believe so positively.

I go to the moon all the time.

what..... you don't?

man i'm going to catch hell for this (but then that never stopped me before)... China, the only planetary body i want to go to is uranus

Oooo

HA!

@TSF

mmmm

nevermind

Okay here is an interesting read about the conspiracies i brought up from the show i watched. He basically gives a good argument against what the doubters brought up. I'm not sure if we did or not. There were a lot of good questions brought up in the show. Keep in mind we were in the middle of the cold war with the Soviets and we needed "the moon" as a morale booster. Anyway i'm conflicted about what i think but this webpage will give you what conspiracy theorists believe and what this one guy believes. Some of his arguments are just as speculative as the theorists.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/ConspiracyTheoryDidWeGototheMoon.htm

nice recoverey, Jesha


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very interesting article. I think this statement pretty much confirms that we did go to the moon, at least in my mind.

If the Russians detected fakery they could simply have invited journalists and scientists to listen in on the next mission. It would have been their biggest propaganda strike ever. And then there are the British, the French, the Japanese, the Chinese ....

hehe thanks China