No need for insults Gibbie. I have always been friends with Ray. Who do you think gave him the inspiration to leave Imperium Gallactica and form this thing in the first place?...... Uh that's right. STAFFA AND I!!!!!! Your 21k points didn't do anything to us long term. We had fun in 20th and 40th, We had fun in 5th, and we'll have fun in second or third or whereever we are ranked. Have fun over here. Although I find it ironic an evil player is calling anyone corrupt. It is spelled G.R.O.S.S. Good luck and Don't be a stranger. Feed Threadzilla from time to time.
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Ray: I'm not trying to insult anyone here, But I am a lay it out on the table kind and if anyone is insulted by it, that is their decision not mine kind of person. And I'm not going to debate the issue. Many in my own empire would disagree with me and it is their right to do so. And though not all these are your personal positions Ray, They seem to be the consensus that is emerging.


I for one will not participate in any new metaverse. I wouldn't register, nor would I submit to it. Nor would I contribute or participate in any thread scoring system different from what Stardock is using. Several reasons for this:

1. Limiting participation to the top 100 or top 50 or top x as stated is exclusionary and anti everything I believe in. If player 101 isn't "Skillful" enough, then I am not skillful enough. If a member of the mwc isn't good enough, then I am not good enough. If even one person is excluded, based upon score, or any other reason other than they are abusive, I won't participate either.
2. In my opinion you are attempting to accomplish something I believe you cannot.
Your system would not truly measure skill any better than the current one. Now several have pulled the wool over their eyes and claimed it would. But no one has a true answer for the fact that any system where submission is voluntary, losses, and quits do not have to be submitted, the game can be saved and reloaded at will, and we don't play each other cannot, no matter what the scoring method, measure skill. Plenty have attempted to with well 1 win 10 losses on maso is better than 20 wins on crippling. Sorry but that is no answer. That is merely opinion (what is "skillful" vs not is in the eye of the beholder) and thus cannot disprove my point. Thinking otherwise is folly and quite frankly, The arguing over scoring continues to drive people away rather than encouraging them to play and have fun. And I'm here to play and have fun, not worry about who's in first, third, or who in my opinion is the "most skillful"
3. Games have a shelf life. Ladders also have a shelf life. Many players from several empires are simply not playing. The only ladders I've seen with long term success are the spades/word games types at www.myleague.com I've been a head td for a few of em so I know of what I speak. This game doesn't fit the bill for long term ladder participation by alot of players. It takes a relatively long time to play a game, and most simply don't have that kind of attention span (not an insult here, just pointing out we all have lives) We have all seen genuine participation halve in the last month. We've also seen how new players quickly move up because of that as well as the balls and chains we oldies are draggin. The aussie's are attempting to go theme to counter that. I truly believe their problem was their players stopped playing. They had as many as we. So being a regional empire was not their problem. The MWC had the same problem till we kicked em in the side a few times and woke em up (I figured that would get em playing again) But both are merely symptoms of the larger problem. A problem we have no counter for.
People have found other games to participate in. And quite frankly, this one just cannot compete interactive wise, with the Star Wars Galaxies of the world. A new scoring system is not going to change this fact. The game and especially the metaverse is running its course. It is going to get far worse when school starts up again. A new scoring system will not change that. My time is best served having fun while I can here. There are other gaming worlds than these, however, and I'd like to play them soon.

Just my two cents. Like I said, It's up to everyone what they want to do. But coun't me out. I'm just gonna play and have fun

Oh and call me a traitor for it but I did break down and try SWG with a friend of mine on his pc. There is no way our lil mmorpg stories can compete. I will never play that again however. I'd be addicted in a heartbeat.

Pontius: it is certainly your right not to participate in any system. However, I want to address some of your concerns.

Most important is that I did not intend to be exclusionary. I tossed out the "top 100" idea in order to save work for the list owner. If every Joe User who ever submitted a game would go to get themselves an account on the other ladder, it would drive the list owner nuts keeping up with all the new accounts and the policing. If the list owner was willing to code some nice way of automating everything involved, or was just willing to put the work into dealing with all the submissions, or if it simply turned out that there were no such problems with mass submission, then there's no problem and no need to limit submissions.

For your second point, no one would claim it's a perfect measure of skill. You're right, there is no purely objective way of measuring skill. But so what? Just because no system is perfect doesn't mean that some systems aren't better than others. There seems to be fairly broad agreement on some specific things that could be done to improve the Metaverse. Look at all the Metaverse complaint threads over the past month--they all are saying basically the same few things. Whether or not skill is subjective, if enough people agree on a definition then it becomes good enough to act on.

For your last point, if the ladder dies, it dies. No big deal.

The most important reason for a new ladder would be because I think it would encourage people to have *more* fun when playing. This point has been made innumerable times, mainly because it's true: the current system encourages milking and other unfun ways to play. I hate to admit it, but I do adjust my play style a little for the sake of the Metaverse--I go for military conquest instead of cultural conquest, and I think that's pretty universal among players near the top. Don't you? You don't have any recent games that aren't military victories. Very few top Metaverse players do. Staffa doesn't, Ray doesn't, and I didn't look any further but I would bet 90+% of games submitted by top 25ers for 1.05 are military conquest victories. You can't tell me that military conquest is *that* much more fun than anything else. I would also bet that the predominance of military conquest victories coincides with the patch where Stardock began penalizing other victories.
[Message Edited]

Pontius: I hold your person in the highest (and I really mean that) respect. You and all the other GROSSers, and in fact most people on this forum. I never attacked you, but pointed out some issues I had with the GROSS empire. It's not a big deal, to me. I agree I'm not score monster, never wanted to be. Don't want the game to get too stale too quickly.

The unfortunate fact that my switch made the difference between GROSS and the Fellowship, is just that, unfortunate. Anyway, you are only 11000 out of first, (since as you mentioned, my score isn't all that high anyway), so reclaiming first shouldn't be a big deal. I think you and GROSS will thrive on the competition. Anyway I think you and I are of similiar attitudes towards this game...it's just for fun, nothing to get too serious about. Anyway I hope this clears up any issues. If I came off sounding arrogant, I apologize.
Now back to to normally scheduled thread

"Rather, I would have said you were a disloyal gibberdigibbet", says Dropbear.
Wombie leans over and whispers something in Dropbear's ear. Dropbear tries to look abashed: "Ah, I meant to say, I would have said you were a gibberdigibbet on occasion".

We have assimilated one G.R.O.S.S. pirate. They admire our culture so much, they have overthrown their empire and joined us.

Will the rest of their empire suffer the same fate??? Probably not, the cultural resist at the core of the empire is much higher.

This new addition brings our power level to the top of the Meta, but are we well on our way to victory? It is not probable. Other empires still hold a significant portion of the Meta as their stronghold. For now we stand atop the world and enjoy an influence bonus.

I think Gibbie99 slipped out of the formation before listening to my inspirational speech. C'mon! Y'all know that would've made the difference!

And about that gap between the number one empire (congrats ;p) and G.R.O.S.S., if I finish this tiny game, I'll look desperate. If I switch to a larger game, then I really am desperate. For that matter, Gibbie99 thinks we're "a bunch of happy-go-lucky alcoholics who pretend they are pirates, only soft, fluffy, squezable pirates." Perhaps my goofy antics are partly to blame. Should I stiffen up and get lean 'n mean? Uh... what am I thinking?!?! This is for MY fun! So SUCK IT DOWN!!! LOL

Ah, aren't they cute? Seriously, play how you want. I do.

Pontius,

With regards to your concerns on vincible's proposal, I think vincible has already articulated the reasoning very well.

There's absolutely nothing forcing people to participate in this new ladder. It's more like a private ladder for those who like it. Yes, it will die when we no longer find it to be fun. But then we would all just move on to the next fun thing on the horizon. Don't we all?

I could understand your position on the Galciv Metaverse, but I'm rather perplexed why you came to speak out against a private ladder that some gamers would like to set up for their own enjoyment.

As for Gibbie, I thought you had a grip on things when you gave your customary "Don't be a stranger" wave to folks leaving GROSS.

But those other posts you made in the GROSS thread were really unnecessary. Well, Gibbie has clarified himself in a subsequent post so there's no need to continue this name-calling.

Personally, I admit that I was demoralised when Shakaar and jus4golf left the White Council for GROSS sometime back. That was then when I realised that the Metaverse has become too personal for me.

Let's remember that THIS IS A GAME

And Pontius, I'm still waiting for the customary congratulations to the new #1 empire.

The White Council was formed on 29 May 2003, it was a tremendous achievement when our small band clinched the Metaverse top spot in 8 days.

The Fellowship was formed on the 9 Jul 2003, it is equally impressive that we took 9 days to repeat this feat.

Kudos to everyone!

The event that I was awaiting for my next MMORPG instalment has arrived.

Story to come...

Ray, you can't say it was formed on 9 Jul 2003. Come on! The core of the Fellowship shifted over from the Council. I think you are giving ourselves a little too much credit.

But! It's still a feat indeed. Especially the 250000+ gain over the last few days.

Oooooo!

[Kit stomps around in a little circle, his knuckles turning white.]

I HATE cute! I hate it! I hate it! I hate it!

Gibbie99 knows exactly which buttons to push. How? Why?

The answers will have to wait. Someone revived the CariElf fanclub thread, a thread I never knew about, and it has been hilarious reading for the past couple of hours.

One other thing, I've been trying to hint at the fun that I'm having with the recent "Metashifts". I hope that comes through for y'all.

That was me.
I figured people might want to relive those moments again or experience the foolishness that was the good ol' days.
I entered at the very tail end of the fan club and you bet I had fun reading it, too.

"Ray, you can't say it was formed on 9 Jul 2003. Come on! The core of the Fellowship shifted over from the Council. I think you are giving ourselves a little too much credit."

Hehe, you're right Gengsta. Getting from zero points to first in the Metaverse was much more a feat than moving up from fifth to first.

Well, GROSS is just a mere 4k behind us so I'm not sure whether I should be posting my story.

Well, I still do it for the fun of it.

None taken. I just figured you felt guilty and thus were rationalizing it. Like I said, nothing to feel guilty about, so no need.

I came to let you know that given it's configuration and goals at the moment, Don't count me in. I think it is being done for the wrong reasons. And It is my right to speak for or against whatever I choose if my conscience so dictates be it privately owned or public. Just as it is my right to make an attempt to persuade you from traveling the wrong path. Just as it is your right to disagree and have said ladder. I've told you what path I think you should choose. It is your decision on whether or not to choose it.

Oh and you may be first but I have a poem for ya.

Run Run as fast as you can.
We're gonna catch ya Sooner or later Gingerbread man.

Teehehe

Theleb’s eyes scanned the countryside from his high vantage point on the Fellowship watchtower, his trusty battleaxe ready by his side.

Barry and the Mad Prophet held their positions at the doors of the Fellowship Halls, forming the first line of defense against a frontal assault.

The two Jedis, Yoda, and Qui-Gon, powerful warriors and friends of the Fellowship, sat cross-legged in the Fellowship courtyard, tuning their Force-sharpened senses to the environment, sensing for intruders.

CariElf the cleric and Michael the bard paced the Fellowship infirmary, awaiting the call for their soothing skills.

All around the Halls, other Fellowship warriors stood guard over their respective positions, a mask of vigilance over their faces.

The Jedis felt the disturbance first. They leap to their feet in an instant, light sabers at the ready.

From a distance, two men could be seen piggybacking another two. Moving quickly, they were soon at the doors of the Fellowship Halls.

The Mad Prophet recognized one of the men as Idleprocess the enchanter, a fellow patron of the Prancing Pony.

“The Undead are coming!” Idleprocess panted as he was quickly ushered into the Courtyard. As the defenders gathered round the queer quartet, few failed to notice his dark elf compatriot.

“I am Gibbie and I have traveled long and far to join the Fellowship. Along the way, I met these two gentlemen.” Gibbie pointed to the two unconscious men that they laid down.

“KitWarrior and IceMole were curious about the ways of the Dark Elves and had sought to bring me back to their pirate ship by force.”

“We were about to about to enter into a vigorous “discussion” when the Undead jumped us. Hordes of skeletal warriors were overwhelming us and the pirates took grevious wounds. It was only through the timely intervention of Idleprocess, who happened to be passing by, that we managed to escape with them.”

“Undead formations are approaching!” Theleb shouted from the watchtower.

They rushed to their defensive positions.


Deep within the Halls, four robed figures stood facing each other over a pedestal. A single shaft of light fell from a circular hole in the ceiling, illuminating the pedestal top.

“It is time”, the eldest among the four spoke.

“H5O. The components.”

The halfling alchemist had been standing just beyond the shadows of the casting chamber, busying himself with the many rare and delicate components needed for this spell. He had traveled on many a dangerous mission, procuring the perfect reagent for this work.

The components were placed in an exquisite container. It was a bowl, fashioned by the best jeweler with the help of powerful magicks, from the powerful artifact known as the Telenath Crystal.

They watched as HawaiiFive-O placed the crystal bowl gingerly on the pedestal top.

Ray moved towards the bowl and with the greatest of care, he removed a Ring inscribed with letterings of fire from a pouch. Taking a deep breath, he dropped the Ring within. Returning to the spot at the northern compass position of the pedestal, Ray raised his white staff. Taking his cue, Gengsta, vincible and philopoemen did the same, the tips of the four staves forming an imaginary apex at the bowl.

The words of the spell issued forth in turn from the four mages, its intensity and speed rising as streams of white fire shot towards the bowl, consuming its form from sight.

As the beams hit, a bright red flame struggled darkly in the bowl, as if rejecting the light enveloping it.

Beads of perspiration appeared on their heads as the Wizards faced the fury of the resisting Ring.

The implosion hurled the wizards like rag dolls onto the floor. With a loud boom, a bright white pillar of light ascended from the pedestal, flowing through the hole in the ceiling into the night sky. The pillar of light rose far into the heavens, further than the eyes can see. A pure concentric circle of white emitted from the pillar, its edge diffusing rapidly over the landscape of Meta.

From the watchtower, Theleb watched with awe at the magnificent display before him.

“The Spell of Transcendence! We have done it!” he exclaimed.

All over Meta, warriors and peasants alike paused involuntarily as the pure wave of light swept over them.

Tears came unbidden to their eyes.

Somehow, they knew.

A new age has begun.

"And It is my right to speak for or against whatever I choose if my conscience so dictates be it privately owned or public. Just as it is my right to make an attempt to persuade you from traveling the wrong path. Just as it is your right to disagree and have said ladder."

Nobody is questioning your right to do anything, Pontius. I was just puzzled as to your decision to jump in and pour cold water on an proposal that really had nothing to do with yourself.
[Message Edited]

Ray, time for me to deliver the promised goods in about 15 minutes. That dang thing called Real Life came a calling and slowed me down a bit too much. Anyway, it is not what you would expect, but it is a start to build upon.

Well I thought everyone's input would be welcomed yea or neigh. I guess I was mistaken.

Anyway, good luck, if that's what you decide to do.

Well Pontius, you did seem rather worked up about the ladder idea for someone who was supposedly just giving a neutral third-party opinion. Phrases like "anti everything I believe in" and "pulled the wool over their eyes," along with your general tone of "well *I* at least am here to have fun" (which comes with the strong implication that the people who are currently discussing scoring are not) make the reader think you feel strongly about the issue. I think Ray was perfectly justified in wondering why.

Barry, for some reason your post #289 really cracked me up.

I'm feeling the urge to contribute to the MMORPG again. But the responsible part of my brain is telling me to go to bed.