The batlling is bogus-- prove me wrong!

from Stardock Forums
I believe the battling in this game at the harder levels simply does not work the way the battling is supposed to work as stated in the manual. {or should I say stardock lies in the manual about how the battling works} Time and time again there will be one attacking ship that will take out multiple ships orbiting my planets when reason would dictate it would be almost impossible all things considered. Example -- an attacking ship with a max hitpoints of 31 and an attack/defense of 8/6 attacks my planet with three defenders. With all my bonuses EACH one of my defenders had hitpoints of 40 and attack/defense of 3/3 -- after the battle ALL my defenders were gone and the attacking ship had hitpoints of 23. So lets analyze this battle {or should I say joke} Lets give every bit of "luck" to the attacking ship throughout the battle. Even if the attacking ship had constantly rolled nothing but its max attack points and defense points with EACH ROLL it would have taken approximately 18 rolls to kill all my ships which it did! And meanwhile throughout the battle, my ships rolled would have rolled 8 ones and 9 zero's!!! What are the odds of that I ask!!! And if the attacker had had any rolls that were any less "incredibly lucky" than those maxed out rolls, the battle would probably have taken more than 18 rolls which would be even more preposterous!!! If this were an isolated incident I would make nothing of it, but this kind of thing happens all the time. When you play at the harder levels {I was playing at the challenging level} why is the AI always so "Lucky" in its battle rolls and the human player so "Unlucky." The only thing I can surmise is that stardock has written in a "Battling Bonus" for the AI and a "Battling Minus" for the human player at the more difficult levels which is NOT how they say the battling works in the manual. Oh btw -- the enemy ship was only at neophyte level if your thinking that has something to do with it. If anyone thinks Ive missed something here please tell me cause now I'm getting fed up with this game. Oh - one more thing -- I know one of the options at the begining of the game is boosting defense. Is that ability so incredibly powerful that my ships would have survived --I doubt it -- being in the war party and getting all those extra hitpoints and maxing my offense didnt do me much good so I can't believe more defense would have changed anything.
599 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Check out the battle simulator http://www.galciv.com/metaverse/simulator.asp

Based on your settings, the attacking ship is expected to win 100% of engagements with an average loss of 5hps per defender in 1000 trials.

So taking out 3 defenders is a piece of cake for that ship.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
By your example, it's ship attacks with 8 vs your defense of 3 Your ship on its attacks attacks with 3 vs the puter's defense of 6. Though you get defense bonuses for the planet, your ships don't have the attack capablility to do much vs the puters defense rating. The ai's ship should in fact, be creaming you.

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Defenders as you can see where never really ment to lap up anything defence-wise too far beyond corvettes. As crazy as it sounds combat transports with the Galactic Councils defensive phasers bonus blessing are of great defensive capability (providing you have the tech to build them drednougth tech I think, not sure).

Also +50% hit points is a prety big bonus (provided your goverment holds the senate) . . . Sometimes if you see a ship approaching your system you may be better off breaking orbit and attacking them first . . . a good example of this is considering Battle Hammers (BH) vs Cruisers and even Drednoughts early/mid game. BHs are expensive and have a short range but are a good stop gap (I believe) while you wait for Dreds so long as you attack in each melee otherwise they're easy prey.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
And meanwhile throughout the battle, my ships rolled would have rolled 8 ones and 9 zero's!!!
End of quote


No suprise. Check this chart for Defenders attacks against the attacker:

Attacker defence roll 0: 0, 1, 2, or 3 damage
Attacker defence roll 1: 0, 0, 1, or 2 damage
Attacker defence roll 2: 0, 0, 0, or 1 damage
Attacker defence roll 3: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage
Attacker defence roll 4: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage
Attacker defence roll 5: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage
Attacker defence roll 6: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage

That's about 10/24 of 1 HP damage per hit. Not very much. You may want to upgrade your system's defence further, as well as the quality of your ships.

BTW, I'm sure we are all tired of these silly "AI cheating" threads, especially if they are spawned from a misunderstanding of the manual. There has only been one user that has been successful in proving cheating, and that bug is being worked on.

[Message Edited]
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
The 'Maso' Bug? J/K . . . ;)

I find the 'Neutral' Icon very relaxing to look at, so serene, so peaceful, so sleepy . . . Zzzz Zzz Zz z z hu!

Edit - It lookes remarkably just like one of my best friends from primary school, her name was Egdwina. I wonder what Edgwina is doing now? Well if your out there Ewgdina and perhaps reading this I just wanted to say, sorry for throwing your 'frizzbie' on your neighbours roof. We both knew I did it on purpose but I said I didn't. Anyway 'such is life'.



[Message Edited]
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Thanks for the info everyone -- especially Ray for the Battle sim link -- but I don't understand why it was done this way :( If your roll is supposed to be between 0 and your max and your max is 3 -- after 5 rolls why are you always rolling close to a zero so much and why not some 3's!! -- This isn't the impression I got from the manual -- look at the info Sigma pulled on defenders attacks against the attacker;
Attacker defence roll 0: 0, 1, 2, or 3 damage
Attacker defence roll 1: 0, 0, 1, or 2 damage
Attacker defence roll 2: 0, 0, 0, or 1 damage
Attacker defence roll 3: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage
Attacker defence roll 4: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage
Attacker defence roll 5: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage
Attacker defence roll 6: 0, 0, 0, or 0 damage

where are the 3's or how bout some 2's at least. Is
a defender's 3 a 3 pretty much in theory only??!! Oh well -- one more thing -- You get war declared on you so quickly at the advanced levels how can you ever get enough rolls to research techs that give you advanced ships to build. I've got frigates hammering me when I'm nowhere near the tech to get them myself. :(
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
For Sigma's chart look at it as a 2x2 matrix with the attacker rolls on left column and defender rolls on the top row (0,1,2,3). So the first column is when your defender rolls a zero and the last column will be when your defender rolls a 3. Even if the defender rolls a 3, it will only damage the attacker if the attacker rolls a 0-2 (rows 1-3), any other rolls (rows 4-6) the attacked will not receive any damage.

One move to make on higher levels is to trade for Energy Channelling and Space Militarization from AIs (esp minors - cheaper). You would immediately be able to research Interstellar Tactics or Turbo Phasers. Else trade for Defensive Phasers for Battle Hammers. Trading for these techs are cheaper than trading for Interstellar Tactics directly.
[Message Edited]
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Ahh - thanks again Ray -- I have in fact been trading with minor civs lately and been happy with the results. One more thing -- Is there any substantial advantage or disadvantage to having occasional habitable planets as opposed to common? How about clustered star systems as opposed to scattered??
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Yikes!! -- Ray you just straightened this whole thing out for me -- I made a basic error and I feel like a fool. I was disregarding the attackers defense when my defenders were attacking!! DOH!!! Now it's so easy to see why defenders {or any ship with much less firepower} has a huge disadvanage. Not only does it have little chance of stopping damage, but when it comes to it's turn to fire, it requires a very low roll by the attacker for it to do much damage at all!!
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
in other words, the "defender" is a real POS!!!!! LOL

This is not your daddy's CIV1. A phalanx may kill a battleship, but not a battle cruiser.
[Message Edited]
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Ahh - thanks again Ray
End of quote


No prob, Bluewulf. :)

Don't think ocassional and common are much different in the number of habitable planets. Feel there is a bigger difference between common and abundant.

Tight clusters tend to make starting positions more drastic, less so on scattered maps.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Two things that forgot to be mentioned

1> Ships with a defense value that is greater than their attack value get a special bonus – when attacked, half their defense counts as an attack. A Battle Axe with 3 attack and 6 defense actually gets to roll up to a 6 for its attack roll when it is attacked.

2>Factors that come into play include looking at how much military might is in orbit of that star system. (regarding resistance to culture flipping).

Defenders DO have a good use, just have to keep in mind their military weaknesses.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerakken's general rule of thumb: if a ship is outclassed by 3 or more points in the category it is using, that ship is basically dead. Example: A ship with 5 attack fires on an 8 defense ship results in a dead attacker. A defender with 3 defense resisting an attack 6 ship leads to no defender. There are exceptions, of course, but this rule is what I use to separate desperation tactics from necessary risks.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
Was it ever confirmed that the random die rolls were linear, instead of, say, gaussian?
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
Don't forget also, unless someone already mentioned it...as a ship continues to win in combat, that ship goes up in "level", which give more bonuses to attack and defense. So it may lose a few HP in each battle, but it gets stronger with each victory.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
and you can repair the ships at a starbase that has a repair module. :)
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
and you can repair the ships at a starbase that has a repair module.
End of quote


I thought they only had to be in the same sector as the SB to get the BOUNS repair rate of the repair module. The empire itself should have an inhearant repair rate once basic repair is researched, plus any anomolus repair bounses you might get.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
They should up the repair rate of the repair module. 1% is nothing and it takes forever.

I never build it because it is just so much cheaper and efficient to repair in orbit instead.