No worries. I didn't take it that way.
I agree that maso scoring is maybe a bit too high (or the others have been dropped back too much).

You are right about the brownlow. Silvagni's wife - that's Jo whatshername from Sale of the Century, right? Didn't realise she got that gig from the Brownlow. They do all seem to like to preen for the cameras on there!

No worries Wild Won, I say things in hope more than anything . . . I still got alot to learn about the whole Maso strat so I shouldn't really comment too much.

Hehe . . . Jeff, do you really think we could distract Ray long enough for the rest of us to catch up? Mabye we could've sent him some plane tickets for New Zealand so he could've been in the LOTR Movie as an extra or something, but unfortunately its all ready been shot . . .

Oh well I think I have a date mith a medium sized Map (gulp!) . . . wish we luck this Maso stuff is getting a bit difficult. :notsure:

"GO COLLINGWOOD!"

Cotal, didn't anyone tell you that medium maso is the hardest maso map size to play?

Um, like many I have been perturbed by the dramatic increase in maso scores. It will make the top ? on the Metaverse (Masoverse) unreachable. Another way of looking at that is, oh well, does it matter? Number 1 is unreachable now and no-one has been upset at that. My view is that maso has been over-rewarded. But if the top 10 players are players who all beat maso gigantic/large maps I won't be too upset. But, it will distort the empire rankings because maso players like that, will not be evenly distributed. And I think that it is important to be inclusive of all game difficulties. I would hate it if a lot of players decided it was pointless to contribute scores or do the empiring thing. As always, it is a very fine balancing act between awarding difficulty and rewarding a dedicated Galciv player. I think the scoring needs another tweak.

Now it could be that FB does things like this IN ORDER TO CREATE controversy! It gives everyone something to have an opinion about and unsettles rankings and empires. Maybe such controversy is good for us all. Or maybe not.

On another note, I note that already some are suggesting that maso is not hard enough and that certain exploits should be closed. If that happens, it will mean there will only be a mere handful of players who can win at that level through some sort of superhuman precognition or something. I win because of the diplomatic choices at set-up. If that becomes nerfed (as did the PQ15% set up choice) I doubt I could win my small maps. On a personal note I hope this doesn't happen, because I enjoy the challenge of maso which is hard even with such 'exploits'. Surely, another harder 'nightmare' level would satisfy game purists? I note that there have only really been 2 players in the history of Galciv (Ray and Staffa) who have regularly and consistently played maso for 'enjoyment'. However, as Ray says, the budget for a new level is probably not there.

This has been a ramble. Sorry.

Are you feeling too emotional about this issue, Killa?
I have some comments on your post but if you are then I'll hold back.

~SDC~

What Koala said... you should jump straight to Large or Huge, Cotal. More breathing room.

I started a gigantic game to day and got completely overwhelmed.
Hadn't actually run into any AIs... it's just it was sooo biiiigggggg. So many planets, so many stars. Think I will give it a rest for a few days and try again later.

So you think the Pies will beat Brisbane this time?
Do you think any brunettes will attend the Brownlows?

It's the Pies best chance - but the Rocca tribunal hearing counts for a lot! Missing Rocca, despite their good form, makes the needle swing back in favour of the Lions, I think. Cotal - a Pies fan! So are Hurley and ajm. If Rocca is in, the Pies can do it this time.

NewfyScotian,

You mentioned problems with anomalous games before. Got a tip for you. Retire your games along the way and see if you get a zero score that indicates anomalous. If there is some score, your game should be alright.

~SDC~

Hi Cotal:

Congratulations on your number 2 ranking and also on your maso wins, which are both major galactic achievements. I got confused when you said:



I have always avoided alliances to avoid getting dragged into war and lately I have been bribing with tech to get the AI to go to war against each other early. How does one reconcile that with your statement fo allying? Are you allying instead of getting them to go to war or are you allying and still getting everyone to war with each other and lying low? And does the espionage do much other than prevent the assassination leading to war event? Could you please explain that a little more? Thanks.

Rick
[Message Edited]

Ray, no I'm not emotional at this scoring change (unlike that one all those months ago). Back then, I wanted the higher difficulties rewarded much more.

Now, I've mellowed and can see that many players are still playing the game because of the Metaverse (and they are not maso or even crippling level players). So my view has changed somewhat, and I hope that FB can reach a balance between the 2 (almost) opposing views on what the Metaverse represents.

There are valid points of view on both sides. I would stress though, that after every single scoring change over the past few months, things eventually settle down and everyone seems to accept the changes. I am ever fearful though, that one day that won't happen, and that some of my mates will head off to play another of the plethora of games out there.

My advice to everyone today is to see how things go. Don't change your play style just to increase scores. Don't play at higher difficulties if you don't enjoy it. Don't use so-called cheesy tactics if you feel uncomfortable with them. But of course, don't expect to get those salivating mega scores either.

Finally, in my experience, when changes are made to something in which people have invested a lot of their time, it is often better to make them incremental, rather than dramatically steep. Perhaps a few incremental tweaks to the scoring would have caused less anxiety. However, I recognise that FB has a view, and incremental changes have not been his way. I also remember that the last major scoring change, FB actually polled everyone to see what scoring mechanism they wanted, with limited success.

I'm interested to see how many maso players end up at the top positions, and how the empire rankings are affected.

To conclude: Everyone, just keep contributing to the Galciv community and with any luck we'll eventually get a Metaverse so refined and polished that it encapsulates all of the good things about competition and fraternity.

Ricbayer . . . its a tactic I happened across quite honestly by accident. I noticed that on Painful and Crippling that all the AIs were friendly most the time because I was so far in front with TGs, wonders and Technology, trade didn't seem to figure in the equation at all (which was a suprise to me).

With Maso it seems (admitedly I've only tested this three times so far so its only theory) a high diplomatic rating achieves the same effect. So all you have to do is concentrate on allying with as many civilizations in the 'one' turn as possible (give them Instant Communication and Alliances a few turns in advance). I do this ussually after I've built a Historic Conserve or a Rest-room of Eternity etc etc (something which increases your overall influence substancialy) or Xeno techs i.e. +10 diplomacy, thats what tips them over the edge from Friendly to close in an instant. Once your allied with most or all of them the game is won !

I spend only a single slider click on espionage for each race that I'm allied with . . . 99% of the time this is enough to stop unpleasant diplomatic blunders. If you do manage to ally with everybody at once there seems less chance of anything scandalous happening since no one is trying to undermind you . . .

If all geos well you should be 'buddie buddie' with everyone well befor capital ships even appear . . .

The other obvious advantage (exploit really I guess) is that Allies don't care if you build Cultural Palaces or Terror Stars in thier sectors. Hope that helps . . .

Jeff. I don't think anyone thanked you for all the effort in posting your 'walk through'.

So I am . Thank you.

Strangly enough, it is very similar to what I do at Normal level.

One 'cheese' I have discovered, that I have not seen mentioned, is that if another Civ starts getting "wary", you can give them just ONE influence point, and it bumps them up one notch in attitude.
It works at Normal level.

You can also buy things with influence points instead of money and this does not reduce your score, like using money does.

Opps! I didn't see that big post . . . WoW, some great suggestions there!

Rainbird that 'cheese' of offering one influence point works on Maso too (sometimes), especialy when you've just researched or built something that enhances your diplomacy or overall influence . . . The more I think about it though the less chessy I think it is because buying some wonders and putting yourself into dedt for a dozen turns is risky stuff.

Ohhh, We're getting so close to the big 1 million . . .

jeez, spend another day drinkin' beer (for any melbournites, the Hight St Northcote festival yesterday was a ripper!) and miss all the fun in the meta.

BTW I don't care about the scoring levels, I just play what I want (small, crippling) when I want (or when the missus lets me) and i iz happy for it.

so let's just be the happy empire. we need some more stories. must get onto it.

Evil Steve - took the kids to the Royal Melbourne Show on Friday (see what happens when you have kids); I love it though, animals, woodchopping, showbags - ya gotta love the looks on the kids faces. (Example: )

And register my thanks to Jeff too

Just seen that Stydracos has slipped in a win at Maso.

Well done.

Better get my current game finished. He is right behind me now.

Cotal: well done! You beat a medium maso! Most players have said that is one of the hardest maps to play at maso.

Great guide Jeff! Some comments:



I always build Fusion Plants after soil improvement. It costs less to build.



Maybe try to trade a tech to them, for some freighters. Often, you end up with an instant trade route.



Another tactic is to declare war on them immediately they pop up. I do this by going to the diplomacy screen and trading my war declaration to a civ that I want to increase my diplomatic rating with. Then I go into the diplomacy screen and offer peace to the minor civ. At this stage of the game, they offer all of their surplus (say 500bc) for 50 turns as peace reparations. It may pay to blaockade their planet to stop another civ from taking them over. And at the end of 50 turns, take it with a transport.



And let's keep it at that. I don't want too much competition on small maps.

As Cotal says, with a high enough diplomatic rating, gifting 1 UP vote every 3-4 turns raises diplomatic ratings. I also blockade minor civs with corvettes so that I can take them at leisure, and prevent another civ getting them. I trade techs to the major civs as well.

As I said, your guide is great! I feel inspired to take on a larger map! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks To all listed below

Jeff and Cotal: for maso tactics.. I'm trying them out now

Rainbird: I didn't realise that you lost score for trading stuff for cash.. very interesting.. i must remember that.. thanks)

Evil Steve: for laying down the mine fields to protect our flank from the Euro's and Canadians...

Evil Steve replies... ummm... what mines ????

BlueSteel (Getting red in the face as blood preasure rises) The mine Fields that I ORDERED you to put out ages ago.. Right after we over took the Canadians...

Evil Steve ARRRGGGHHHHH Sorry boss I forgot.. Rainbird comming back distracted me... (:(

BlueSteel yells at Evil Steve "Well... what are you still doing here.... get and lay out the mines.. NOW!!! The Eruo's are advancing again... as if we don't have enough trouble already.."Storms out of the room.. muttering.. "If I want anything done right around here I have to do it myself"

BlueSteel enters his Cabin.. and finds Cotal and Rainbird in there waiting for him..

Rainbird: Don't you think you were a bit tough on Steve, Blue?

Cotal: Steve had it comming .. (Glaring at rainbird) Its all your fault that Steve forgot...

Rainbird: Why.. I didn't do anything... (Glaring back at Cotal hands on her hip[s)

BlueSteel: Ladies, Ladies... Stop this bickering.. the last theng we need is to start falling apart... (Blue sits down leans forward and rests his elbows on his knees and his hands holding his forhead..) Its tough enough fighting everyone else...

BlueSteel Sits up straight again.. and looks at Cotal Hows the new stratagies working.. you know "Maso" I see you've been practicing it.. Is it effective

Cotal: It apears that it'll work.. I've still got more testing to do, but it does look promising.

BlueSteel: Thank god for that.. at least something is going right..

Bluesteel then turns to Rainbird and looks at her.

Bluesteel: So Rainbird... hows the Dept. of Foreign Affairs.. Have you been able to get any new recruits or Empires interested in Joining up with us.

Rainbird: I have a couple of likely candidates which i'm working on.. If anyone can get them to join up I can

BlueSteel: Good..

Just then Evil Steve walks in.

Evil Steve: Ok boss.. the mines are being deployed as we speak..

BlueSteel: Better late than never i suppose. What Dis-Information espionage and sabotage have you got going on.

Evil Steve: Not much lately been busy battling the corn coblers
however I have GROSS believing that they now have more info on our doings.. but its all fake.. so they'll be looking and expecting all the wriong times,systems, charts etc....

BlueSteel: My source on board Pontius's ship has told me that your first scheeme of luring them into a black hole didn't work..

Evil Steve: Who have you got onboard their ship.. I didn't recognise anyone..

BlueSteel: Grins.. Well if you did that would blow their cover .. now wouldn't it. BTW that seems to have taken to the Space herpies that their ship got infected with.. and are now actually making a buck from it.. charging ports they call into and other ships a fee to exterminate them.. Just as well we have protection.


Rainbird: Space herpies... you never told me that.... hate space herpies...

Cotal laughs

BlueSteel: Rainbird.. do you even know what space herpies are ?
Rainbird

Rainbird: ummm... uhhh.... no.... not really.. I've heard its highly infectous though

BlueSteel: Space herpies is a spiecies of creature that is like a plague .. it moves from ship to ship breading like crazy.. and eating electric contuit and plasma coils..

Rainbird: (with a sigh of relief) ohh.. that... I knew that....

BlueSteel: ok thats all for now.. Back to your stations..

They all leave BlueSteel Alone in his room.

BlueSteel starts to wonder if he's a good Emperor... Has he got what it takes.. Its so hard... I wish these darn headachs would go away.. and I could stop dreaming those weird dreams.

{To be continued}

Yipeeeee... We just Crossed the 100,000 barrier only 3 others have done it before us... Congrat's everyone

No worries Rainbird. You say you do similar stuff at Normal... then you should definitely give it a go at the higher levels. The only real difference is you have to accept that you will be way behind in the first third of the game. If you can survive until trade is underway and relations are above Neutral the game plays pretty much the same as the lower levels.
Give it a bash.



This is a cool idea. I will try that. You are also right about Fusion Plants. The main reason I build Man. Plant first is because.... well mainly I'm a dickhead and always forget to research Fusion Plants!! Everytime....

I'll go stick my post is the Strat forum as most folks might not read this thread.

Given up on Gigantic. Started a few games buy wasn't enjoying it. I am going to try Medium and use Cotal's Influence thingo. That sound like a good strategy.

oops i left off a 0 ... LOL

should have read 1,000,000

Still over the moon here

Congrats ANZACs!

See what you are missing out on Wombat?

that's it rainbird- reel wombie in - the 'blonde' trick was your mistresstroke...