Make the minors what they were before 1.11 or make it possible to turn them off!

i agree that the minors should be toned down a bit. but only to the level they were before the last update. i like the idea of expanding minors, but thay expand so fast that they now are basicaly majors. new scripting is great though.

Glad I'm not the only one who sees that the minors have gotten way too aggressive when it comes to expansion. I had one game where two minor races each had about 7-8 star systems! (large map) They also must have been banging out trade goods and galactic wonders every other turn. Having somewhat active minor races can add more dimension to the game, but when they're trampling the majors underfoot, then things are a bit out of hand. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say there should be an option for turning them off. Might be interesting to have some way to adjust their numbers/activity in the galaxy, but I'm not sure how feasible that would be.

i have asked carielf to look into poss of reducing minors expansion sequence. she is checking with brad and will hopefully get answer soon.

imaginos you look like you belong in the Evil Empire

[Message Edited]

That's the third proposition I've had to join the dark side. Not exactly voices in my head, but it's close enough. LOL

hear the screams of the Altarians as you flay the flesh from their alien hides!!
its at this point you realise you belong with us!!
You would be most welcome. or if you wish, simply drop by the Evil Empire thread some time.

Peace through tyranny

I've seen tiny games before 1.11 where the Carinoids had 3 star systems and everyone else only 1 or 2. I actually like the fact that minors are slightly more than cannon fodder now.
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You're not the only one either LDiCesare, the only thing the Minors were useful for before they were improved on was to trade early tech with, and then invade for an easy planet. I'd say the best method if possible would be to give people the choice if they wanted the more "expansionist" minors or not.

Well, they are still juicy cannon fodder to me, except they came in bigger sizes now.

Sell them techs and suck them clean or trade for techs. Wait for them to build economic and manufacturing capitals. Then send them a couple of techs and they will charge your enemy, handing you the keys to their juicy systems when they leave.

~SDC~

Minors are only good for one thing: For beeing exploited!

The bigger they are, the better you can exploit them...

They will never become angry about or declare war and if you declare war on them they will not invade your planets.
They will always be there to trade with you and give you much more than a major would do for what you give them.

If you need something to exploit in the game to have fun then it's fine for you but I would rather like to know the outcome of a game without them... Well I could try to ignore them but they'r just too juicy to do that ...

You can play with only 1 major in a game but you cannot change the number of the minors and that's it what is really sad!

Well at least you will be able to in the Expansion via the Scenario-Editor...

AIL.ST

Remember you will not be able to submit the games to the Metaverse if you use the Scenario Editor.

@Theoden of Rohdan: I don't really care as long as the games are more fun then!

Just a reminder!

I know there are many who don't submit games and just enjoy the game. Enjoy what you are doing!

Minors were in need of being beefed up a bit, but perhaps it was done in the wrong way. Making them expand more aggressively without fixing their inherent weakness in warfare and trades is a little disturbing. Personally, I like the minors being able to crank out the trade goods or trying to research faster on their own. The increased territory also makes them harder to wipe out if the majors go on the warpath. So despite some shortcomings, I think with a little further refinement it could all work out. Just stop making the minors an ATM for the humans by giving them similar trade profiles to the major aliens. But I do agree there should be a switch during game setup to turn off the minors entirely if the player does not want to deal with them.

Aloha...i find that the stronger the minors,the more
enjoyable for me,i'm only to crippling now,not yet maso
are we talking about that level?if so then sorry for the imput,but wish at times they were better at the
military aspect of the game,will hate to see them toned down,but looks like that will happen...
anyway that's just my thought...

I'd like to see their expansion limited to their home sector plus the sectors adjacent. A miner being bigger than all the majors just doesn't seem right. I've not upgraded to the newest version yet and probably won't untill that changes and the only getting 2 random events bug is fixed.

I like the new minors. I'd be OK with leaving them as they are.

If they are to be nerfed, I'd like to see it tied to map size, the same as range is. On tiny and small maps, they should be stuck in one sector. Medium and large, let them expand one radius from their home sector, up to two on huge, and whatever it is now (because it's fine) on Gigantic.


- Sirian

Yes, Ray, but so are the Yor, and they expand more than the other minors and they even get a vote in the UP. Why are the Yor differnet from the other minors?
Oh, wait... Yors are a major race, I forgot it again!

Okay, new minor style made me revise my prime stratagies. No biggie, though a bit of a shock at first. My problem with the way they are now has become more a matter of theory than of gameplay.

See, now minors are majors who can't win. There are other differences natch, but when push comes to shove, it just means there's competitors who can run the race but are destined to fail. They can shove as far or as fast as one of the Council memembers, but sooner or later it's going to go down. This doesn't appeal to me so much. Before it worked because there was a clear reason why the minors were, well, minor. They didn't act big. Now they act big. Before they were the whipping boys and now they're the expansionistic whipping boys.

I would prefer to see them tough but dumb as opposed to the way they've been or are.

~SDC~

I dont have any problem with the minors expanding a bit more into the galaxy but they seem to build all the galaxy wonders and trade goods before I've had a chance to even research the technology. I'm wondering if I shouldn't be downgraded to a minor instead!

I disagree... minors are out to do as much for their population as possible.. including wonders to keep them happy.. All thats said is that minors don't set out to rule the galaxy.. However if your not playing well enough then maybe you should be a minor too.. LOL

Minors however shouldn't be able to setup trade routes as they arn't in the UP .. from what i've been able to make out.. if your not in the up then you can't do trade routes.. (or have i been mislead)

It's probably a function of map size, but on Medium, I have yet to see a minor have any respectability whatsoever. They still have only a handful of planets, and they still go down easy. They also seem to have picked up a nasty habit of never building warships.

In my last game, the Drengin started out stuck in a corner with one star system. The Carinoids had two or three and lasted a bit longer. That's about as impressive as I've seen any minors lately.

I like the expansionistic minors as well.

I agree with this, though it was already the case before. I-League and Fundamentalists have always been dangerous. It would be good if a military victory was achieved only when all minors were eradicated. Alliance would need them to be allies too. Culture and Tech victories don't need change.

I really love it that the minors are so powerful at the beginning because I am usually researching different stuff than they are, and I frequently initiate wholesale "trade-fests" where I swap all my techs for all of theirs. It's a great way to ratchet up your tech level early in the game.

They also make great trade partners.

They can also keep the other AI's busy now, since they can become quite a military powerhouse (especially if you trade military tech with a friendly minor).

Bill

~SDC~

Yes, in maso games I find it essential to locate the minors and start swapping techs like crazy. Though, that only lasts for a short while before they can't keep up any more...