Will the mods please move all Empire threads to the empire forum?

I think you'll find that most of the empires are quite happy where they are. Unfortunately there are a minority who just won't let it go. You would think that the clear as day current poll with very high majority would be enough for them to realise how it has to be.

As you say, it would probably have been a good idea to (re)move the old empire threads from the main forum to prevent this.

From what I have been told a couple of months ago, the threads cannot be moved. Also, there is sort of a mini-revolt that has been simmering among us empiring types. While few of us would want unrestricted recruiting mayhem and cutthroat competition in the General Forum, there is a feeling that we have been segregated from the community when, bluntly put, we are a large part of the community.

Sure, some self-restraint is required so that empiring doesn't turn the General Forum into the Wild West, but I for one feel disconnected by this "separated and equalized" system put in place and once in a while want to reconnect. While I agree that there is a danger it can get out of line, total banishment of empiring here is not the answer.

Gerakken, as a relative newcomer to the metaverse I fully respect the position in "the community" of the long standing members such as yourself, and know that you offer a lot in many different ways.

Unfortunately, the majority opinion is clear, and surely you must respect that majority (many of whom will also be long standing members of the community).

It is a shame you feel you have been segregated, but the empire forum is open to all who wish to view or contribute there, and there is a sticky in the main forum directing people there.

Hmm. Some people don't like empire threads, and I don't like mushrooms. Am I calling for a ban on all mushrooms? No. I pick them away and forget about them. It's pretty simple to ignore a thread you don't like.

Seems a shame that some chose to keep all empire talk out of the main forum, away from the new players who may be interested in them, but not know of their existence.

Well, I'm off to join the activity and excitement of the empires and leaving this dead forum to you and the other empire naysayers.

The segregation is due to the days where the entire first page and half the second was nothing *but* empire talk. It drowned out everything.

As did all the "Come join Gross!" "No, join the Republic of Me!" "No, don't join them, they are all dumb doo-doo heads. Come join us!" instead of any real answers to people's questions.

If they don't want to play by the rules, then delete the threads. Flat kill them. If the mods don't want to do that, at least close them. And any new empire threads. Otherwise, the pro-empire competitors will all be agitating again.

Empires are not the focus of GC. Empires are, however, an option of GC that can, and does for many, add spice. We want our main forum where the new people to the community to be easy front porch for them, so they can post their questions, and get them answered, rather then be LOST to the empire talk.

I'm not an empire hater. I've considered joining an empire from time to time. But I remember our heyday of empiring in this main forum. It was very difficult to help out answering peoples questions because so many threads got hi-jacked into "your empire stinks. Join ours instead", and there was just so much empire talk. That didn't seem very "new player" friendly to me... and it seems the majority of us, the community, agreed. Hence, the empire forum.
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I left the Metaverse before the empire wars hit, so I know nothing about that, and I don't really want to look into it either.

I think the empires forum was a great idea and there is very little bickering going on over there these days.

I can understand your position on this, as I can see the recruitment wars start whenever we see a non-aligned potential recruit post a message.

But I can also understand that everyone has a right to post here in the main forum. Maybe there needs to be more moderators. Maybe the empire members can better restrain themselves. Maybe, maybe, maybe. It's not for you or I to decide what happens here though.

As far as I know, the only person outside of Stardock that has any real power on these forums, is Spellforce (Mindshock/Dream Warrior). Luckily, he's still around and still interested in the community. Perhaps he can shed some light on the issue or provide us with guidance on the proper course of action.

Anyway, I respect your opinion and your right to post whatever and wherever you like.

As I posted in the Diplomats Empire thread over in the Empire forum:

...I think that this exile is a form of slow death for empires. I myself might not have joined any empire had I not seen MW's post in the GF. Many players are missing out on the empire experience from not reading about it in the GF. I believe that new players now view the empire forum as something out of the mainstream, isolated away from Galciv itself.

~SDC~

As someone who joined since the forums were seperated, I can share my opinion. Basically, I would say "I figured it out". I submitted my scores to the Metaverse and saw the other players with their cool empire icons. I saw the post with the recruiting pitch sticked in the main forum. I even went to the empire forum and read many of the empires threads before choosing one. Perhaps some of the older, wiser heads can disagree with me, but I don't know that it's a real problem. Furthermore, the growth of the Guardians seems to back this up.

One improvement that may be needed is a place for new players to talk to prospective empires before selecting one, but they could also post to the empires they are interested in directly. I was sorry that it didn't work out for tylertoo http://www.galciv.com/forum.asp?BID=GE&id=154183 because I thought that was a great idea, one that I almost used myself, but then I think that tylertoo was perhaps a little too sensitive about the whole thing...

My .00002bc

PS: it might be helpful if the "What are empires about" sticky was a little closer to the top of the list on the forum...


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History would show that a fast moving empire with lots of players tends to draw people into its fold. As was probably the case with the Guardians. From nothing to 28 players and P1 in about two weeks. Against the Diplomats P10, 18 players and formed before xmas. (I picked these two as they are currently the most active of the empires). No envy or anything, just statistical facts

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I would put money on the following hypothetical scenario:-

Just prior to the launch of AP, one or two of the metaverse 'big shots' break away from their empire and form one called 'The Altarian Prophesy League'. They immediately go into the top ten in the mv and start posting recruitment posts here in the GF. Within a couple of days there is an influx of new gamers due to the release of AP. Deciding on an empire they would instsntly be drawn to the new one for a couple of reasons. 1.) A high ranked empire with two very successful members 2.) Lots of recruitment threads/posts & 3.) The name of the empire.

From what i have observed over the past 6 months+ that is what tends to be the case. Obviously there are other factors in some peoples decisions too, and not everyone falls into that bracket. But i would bet money on the imaginary empire becoming no1 within 2 weeks of the launch of AP and an influx of new members.

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i also think there is some overreacting to this... i know the jedi thread was bumped because someone wanted to continue a story he had started there, i mean are we really offended that someone decided to finish a thought without putting it in another thread on another forum??

This may be so, but the empires really brought this upon themselves by being utterly rude and without regard for any kind of forum etiquette - in the beginning. Since then, things have improved considerably. It was like anything else new - you tend to overdo it at first, until you find your equilibrium.

I the beginning, it was just SPAM - floods of recruitment material in ALL the threads, including the bug threads, and it was so bad that there were more recruitment postings than bug reports in the bug threads, and it was very difficult to sort through the posts to see if any of the bugs were resolved.

A compromise was reached where they could have their little sales pitch as a sig. I thought this was very good because then the would-be spammers could advertise all they wanted as long as they had something useful to contribute to the thread. I see it rarely being abused; that is, people just posting somthing really not on target just to get their sig in the thread.

A tougher ruling was reached, and I cannot even call it a compromise, when the empire threads were limited to the empire forum. This came about because soon there were more empire threads than anything else in the forum, bumping useful bug report threads and stuff to the second - or sometimes even third - page. It was more due to the sheer number of empires posting threads, not because each empire had many threads.

I guess that is my take of the state of empires. Anyone is welcome to add or rebut as they may. I tried to represent the facts as unbiased, but I know that no opinion is truly unbiased.

Bill

~SDC~

I think it is revisionist to think that this had been imposed by some higher authority, presumably you mean Stardock, as opposed to having been a compromise/agreement within the player community.

~SDC~

We have also been talking about this in our secluded empire forum lair. One person there suggested I repost my comment here.

"Well, as one who helped bring this up again in the GF when I was expressing my feelings of disconnection and wanting reconnection but with moderation, I do not like how the experiment has turned out over the last three months.

First, my statements from the Diplomat's thread:

'I know everybody thought they could just bury the issue after a hasty compromise and a gentleman's agreement a few weeks ago, but it was a temporary fix that may not last. Is this sort of exile really the answer? I am not saying anything crazy like re-integrate the forums or allow total unrestricted recruiting over in the other forum, but I do feel like the empiring community has a valid voice over there on issues just as much as anyone who can post about hating the game or has a Meta problem or bug issues or even wants to talk about the weather. The current fix feels restrictive, like the Secret Police are watching and will pounce on anybody that dares mention the word empire over there. And then we get the few totally anti-empire people. Why do their opinions count for more? I apologize if I help stir up a mess again, but I feel like a cover-up happened a few months ago.'

The way I see this is that people in empires are a major part of the Galciv community. Our voice cannot be silenced just because the easy solution is to banish the word "empire" and all of its associations from the GF.

Before anyone gets the idea that I am preaching "power to the people; we own the place", a disclaimer first: Do we dwell in a police state of a forum? Yes, we do to an extent because all boards are private and are inherently owner controlled, but the cops (Stardock) have so far let us handle this affair our way. They can step in at any time and impose and enforce solid rules.

With that being said, though, if we are going to police ourselves, is our way going to like that of the Taliban where anyone who deviates an inch from a very tight set of social mores gets punished? Cover the women up, because men are tempted; don't play non-religious music, because music should only extol the virtues of the faith; so forth. Well, empiring is kind of getting the same treatment under the current experiment. Cover the empiring types up. They are shameful and indecent and lack self-control. I agree we cannot let empiring get out of hand, but a better solution is to punish the individual transgressors that step too far out of line, but not to punish the entire group. Right now the entire group takes the fall.

Oops, looks like Gerakken's old fire came back out. Apologies to any who may be upset with the Taliban references, but I don't want to be walking down the street in the GF one day mentioning something about empires and have one of those anti-empiring types clubbing me to death because somehow their opinion is worth more. I am not going to fight with a hand tied behind my back because of that. Unless, of course, the board owners take a more direct hand in our affairs. But until then, we are on our own and how we handle this issue reflects who we are as a community."

So all we need to do is rename the Centurions.....

Alex
---------------
Join the Centurions - if you are good enough!!!
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And DW has even suggested the name! LOL

Ahhh, the old "let's get rid of the empire chat because it's annoying to me" gag again....

Frankly, my dear I don't give a damn. The Galactic Forum has become a den of three or four people who for some reason have a dislike for empires. Go ahead and talk about all the important stuff you want to over here. You guys are so much more holier than us anyway. Far be it from those of us who have worked hard to build a community from sharing it with those people who get the game...after all, this is YOUR forum, not ours. We, as empires, are merely second-class citizens in your little world.

BAH...you can keep your forum, I tire of reading this drivel and whining anyway. If the Galactic Forum isn't big enough for the few outspoken empire haters, maybe we should banish empires to a completely other website....maybe we could register a domain like "theGalCivEmpiresPrison.com". Would that make you feel better? Cause that's the most important thing...making three people feel better. I certainly wouldn't want to make you little children mad. My life sure hangs in the balance of what you want, you know.

:VOMIT:

The "segregation" was voluntary.



The "segregation" was voluntary. To whom are you directing your grammatical imperatives? To those who voluntarily "segregated" themselves? To unnamed and masked "moderators"? To the "mob"? Or to Stardock, the forum owners?

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Theoden, I feel that your post is a bit aggressive. And I don't understand your point:

I don't see this to be true: only this thread is about empire. It isn't the whole Galactic Forum.


I don't see lots of empire haters at work here.


I disagree: the Galactic Forum is about general stuff, questions about the game.
Empire is really a different thing. You just have to check the posts in the various empire threads to see that subject discussed aren't the same than in Galactic Forum.
People are interested in different things.

I will also add that your sentence could be reversed (warning, devil advocacy in action): people that post only in the Empire thread, and don't visit Galactic Forum because it isn't the place where they have the most interests, wiew people that are not interested in empire as second class citizen since they haven't come to the enlightement of the empire participation


I think that there is an error in that sentence: the forums aren't defined by who own them but by what subjects are on-topic. If people prefer some topics to other, they will prefer a particular forum. If they are interested in all topics, they will participate in all forums. But in no way they own the forum.

I apologize if my post seems too harsh or if people are under impression that I have quoted out of context, but it isn't the intention.

In the interest of peace, I'm retracting my statement.

Though I still am opposed to being told where I can and can't post, I'll leave this with an apology to anyone I may have offended.

Getting upset never solves a problem, it just compounds it.
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It is funny to accuse empires and you don't even belong to one.

We are not arguing about the Armenian Genocide or some other event in the recesses of our distant cultural memory. The "segregation" as Star Pilot refers to it happened only two months ago! To any who are confused by revisionist arguments: I suggest you go back to the messages of the first two weeks of February on this forum, especially those in the empire threads. It should remind everyone that the "segregation" happened not all at once, and not even instantly as a result of some diktat, but more or less gradually over those two weeks, as the bulk of empire talk naturally moved over to the Empire forum, the empire threads in the GF lost "critical mass".

IMO, this is the same loss of critical mass that has afflicted the GF forums today and turned it into the anemic place it is today.

So it doesn't get missed.

Theoden for Prime Minister!!!!!

I think that this forum is poorly designed in general and most of the problems come from this issue. In saying that though I have no problems with it myself. I think if someone wants to make an empire thread in the GF they should be allowed to. Look at it this way, If someone doesn't want to read through 5000 posts of empire related talk then they simple dont have to. Its a simple decision, and takes no more the 1 sec to decide. For the people that do great. Why have this division because some people think they have to read 5000 pages of empire talk to get information, that just sounds silly to me. Are people incapable of doing some searching on what they want to know? They can either start a new thread or even go into an empire thread and ask a few questions. Its about choices and having the right to choose to post empire related info in the GF. I say bring the empire threads back into the GF! Why should empires be segregated somewhere else when we are the majority of the galciv gaming community. As people we all have a right to express our opinions and choose where we desire to express them. Next you know there will be people saying no more strategy talk in the GF, you can only post strategy topics in the strategy section or..... where is it going to end.What will be next?