WMD stockpiles in Iraq were never the core issue

Support from Clinton

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/236jmcbd.asp
I highly recommend reading this article: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/236jmcbd.asp

It is a very good article that discusses why the US went to war with Iraq in the first place.  It never ceases to amaze me that two things about the on-line world always remain true: 1) How little people know about the facts of history and 2) How willing they are to go on-line and demonstrate this.

The United States and UK went into Iraq because it believed, correctly so, that Iraq was a serious threat to the region and to the US/UK. The Kay report has been reported very selectively. What it actually says includes three  things but only one has been widely reported:

1) No weapons of mass destruction have yet been found and it is increasingly likely that none will be found.

and the part left out that should be mentioned:

2) Saddam thought he had weapons of mass destruction. His generals thought he had weapons of mass destruction. Due to internal corruption, money that was being spent to create weapons of mass destruction were diverted to other things.

3) The general strategy Saddam was going towards was to not create stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction but rather prepare the way to be able to produce them in quantity once the sanctions were lifted. That is, not have a smoking gun but get everything in place to flip a switch once the heat was off.

It is items 2 and 3 that should be remembered and yet are overlooked by the media (and amazingly there are still some people who claim there is no bias in the media).   The United States was attacked on 9/11. It was the most severe attack by a foreign entity against the United States since 1812.  The US is at war.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 directly. But that's totally irrelevant. In a post-9/11 world Saddam couldn't be allowed to stick around. The UN believed he still had weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence services from every major country thought he had WMD.  And why not? Iraq said that they had them too. When Iraq tossed out the inspectors in 1998, there were still tons of WMD unaccounted for.  Iraq refused to account for those weapons and hoped to play the stall game in the hopes that France and Russia would again take the position that sanctions should be lifted.  The people who were against the war are still against the war. The people in favor of military action are still glad we did it. Not finding WMD is completely irrelevant because a) it wasn't up to us to prove he had WMD. and b) His current possession of WMD was irrelevant.

But don't take my word for it. Here is something former President Clinton had to say this past year.

"When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions."

Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave the lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months, and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM.

In 1995 Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more. Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities--and weapons stocks. Previously it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth.

Now listen to this: What did it admit? It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability, notably, 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production. . . .

Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door, and our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it. . . .

Over the past few months, as [the weapons inspectors] have come closer and closer to rooting out Iraq's remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions by imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still not been inspected off limits, including, I might add, one palace in Baghdad more than 2,600 acres large. . . .

One of these presidential sites is about the size of Washington, D.C. . . .

It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons. . . .

Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction.

And some day, some way, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal. . . . In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now--a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers, or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam, and all those who would follow in his footsteps, will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council, and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program.

-Bill Clinton

31,410 views 79 replies
Reply #1 Top
Why do people CONSISTENTLY rate attributes like honesy and integrity high priorities, crisis-of-the-moment notwithstanding? I would submit that facts and history are less important to the "general public" (including the online world) than the almighty sound bite.

Why the uproar about Bill getting a BJ from his mistress? Who the F cares ?

Honesty and integrity.

This is why talk such as - I never said it was an 'imminent' threat gets lost in the blur. At best, it is symantics.

Grandiose optimism about the "informed American electorate" aside - do you honesly think people care about the facts?
Reply #2 Top
Reading back I didn't mean to sound cynical and that is not a rhetorical question (people caring about facts).
Reply #3 Top
Poet: Clearly people don't care about the facts. But it's even worse on blogs because so many people are such idealogues that even when facts are presented to them they aren't willing to digest them and come to a new conclusion.

This creates a second problem because often times bad arguments end up gathering their own momentum which in turn hurt that ideology. For instance, the whole "Bush lied" thing was half-baked to begin with. Yet you have heard countless left-wingers screaming this hysterically for months now. Do they really think that if they scream it enough people will somehow accept it?

If more people would just THINK for themselves on these issues, then better ideas and positions would be formed.

Many people on "my side" of the argument believe that Clinton should have invaded Iraq in 1998. Bush doing it in 2003 wasn't something most of us considered a "bummer". The guy was a monster, a dangerous one at that. one that would grow more dangerous over time.
Reply #4 Top
Some people on the left have been known to say that the right wingers would say the same things if Clinton had taken on Saddam. I would bet good money that most right wingers wouldn't care who did it, they would still see it as a good thing. Saddam is a monster that, given his way, would wipe out western society (mainly the US of course). Why wait to see what he will do when we know what he intends to do?
Reply #5 Top
While I agree throughout this blog about people saying Saddam was a monster, yadayadayada, and I agree, there were reasons beyond WMD to go to war. The problem Bush is facing is that he stated many times that WMDs were the core reason for going to war. So, having said that, I don't give a rat's turd who started the war, and I agree completely with the need to remove Saddam, I do however, feel, and justly so, that Bush either lied, or was lied to about WMDs. I also feel that my personal level of pending doom was heightened by Bush's babble about WMDs. If Bush had started the war by stating, "Saddam's a mass murder, a meglomaniac, and just plain not nice," I'd have been all for it. As it was, Bush stating, "Saddam's got nukes! Americans are in immediate danger!!!!!", well, it's not good for my ulcer.

Cheers
Reply #6 Top
Ouch Brad. PLEASE check your quotes!

You've gone and mixed Clintons 2003 quote with the one he made back in 1998! Big big difference. In 1998 there was a definite case for war due to WMD. Iraq had blocked the inspectors, evicted them in the end. Big difference to 2003 when Iraq was (in the words of the weapons inspectors themselves) "cooperating fully".

Please don't try to warp the case by selecting 6 year old reports and pretending they came from last year.

As for the reasons the US and UK went to war, I'm very happy to admit Bush gave other non WMD reasons. Unfortunately Blair didn't. In fact he went so far as to gaurantee that WMD and not regime change was the sole reason for the war.

Paul.
Reply #7 Top
So I don't get it. You say WMD stock piles weren't the core issue. Then you use something by Bill Clinton that is all about WMD to back up your claim?

The reason is not what matters. What matters is that this is the first time a "real" war was done by the US pro-actively....that is not in response to someone else's request for assistance. That' my friend is the real issue, and the issue that scares the rest of the world.
Reply #8 Top
Solitair - my bad on that. But it doesn't change anything. WMD were not the "core" reason for going to war. Feel free to present evidence to the contrary.
Reply #9 Top
Spanish American War
Mexican American War

Examples where the US acted proactively
Reply #10 Top
Here's what Daschel said on the matter of WMDs when voting for the war resolution:

Daschle, D-South Dakota, said the threat of Iraq's weapons programs "may not be imminent. But it is real. It is growing. And it cannot be ignored."

So anyone trying to argue that the war in Iraq was about WMD stockpiles is well, at best, mistaken.
Reply #11 Top
The reasonings for Congress entering a war are historical fact and I've posted the quotes by Powell, Cheney, Rice, Bush, Perle,etc. for this exact eventuality of the right attempting to revise history and convince us we went in for another reason. No where do you tell us what those reasonings for declaring a war are. Why? Do you now hold forth we went into Iraq because at some future date Iraq might form an alliance with the Soviets and France (that's all the sense I can make of it)? Pure revisionist nonsense and belongs in a category of blog marked silly.
You are openly being deceptive Brad and distorting history to put forth this blog. We were told there were WMD in existence, they could be used to bomb United States Cities, that Sadam was a funder of the 9/11 attack and a co-conspirator. Does anyone remember otherwise? This is pure un-adulterated belated attempts at revisionism. You reflect the same critique you have of others in using a www rant about Sadam imagined the WMD and his people just ripped him off. That is nonsense you know it and Bush did fraudulently mis-represent and select his sources and other intelligence to achieve his goal - decided well in advance of 9/11 even - of sending our troops into Iraq. He used the propoganda of his own Cabinet members to further those aims and one by one they are all admitting it was not true.
Don't make us pull up the quotes of Rice, Powell, Bush, etc. or you'll regret ever putting this mis-direction up.
FACT: America was told that Sadam and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction he intended to use on us.
This was done to create a panic and the emotional mood necessary to falsely lead us into invadiung a Sovereign nation.
They are now confiscating the infrastructure of Iraq and lining the considerable pockets of their business friends - numerous investigations of shell Corporations and dummy-corps are starting all over the world where they have set up tax havens to escape tax and moral accountability - and are even now allowing our troops to be maimed and die while they further this act. They have no reason to be there now and are there not to liberate women and save babies, but to make money and build pipelines to steal the oil of the Sovereign people of Iraq.
You're buddy, Bush, was out-and-out wrong in his advice to the American people. We know he was, and learn more and more how wrong each day, as the facts of fat contracts and overcharging our military develop. You are on the wrong side of this issue Brad and your side is losing its credibility to continue to try to over-extend your argument by now telling us What we really thought. We know what we thought; we know what we think now. Worry about what you think on this, as we're on the right side of history already and would have 100 billion more to spend domestically, were it not for your side persisting in its determination to make this justified for more war-making.
It's over Brad you were wrong. Admit it and find something Bush is doing right to defend. It may be getting harder to find one, but I'm sure he did something for us besides make us know how it feels to be betrayed by more empty promises. Four more years? Yeah, right.
P.S. - Feels good to be back dis-agreeing with you over something.
Reply #12 Top
If they were not the core issue, then why was it the subject of the presentation by Powell to the UN Security Council as the difinitive reason for supporting our invasion of Iraq? Getting rid of Saddam was good, I won't argue that as he definitely needed to go. However the WMD were the big selling item the administration used to persuade us to go along with the war.

We can not go around wielding a big club to every nation that we suspect may not like us, or may consider ever being aggressive towards us. If we were truely working to defend ourselves, we would have gone after N. Korea instead as they pretty much admit to having a nuclear weapons program, and they're located in a place where they have a much better shot at hurting us.

The WMD issue is core to the war debate now, because it was core to it when we were looking for international support. You can't use a point to argue for doing something, then when you find out you were wrong (for whatever reason), decide that you didn't really mean for it to be the main support for your argument.
Reply #13 Top
Brad, I see you writhing like a fish on the beach, but you're not helping yourself any, nor anyone else for that matter.

But I should stay on topic. Brad is half right. The core of going to Iraq was about oil, the other half about WMD.

"In 1992, then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney had a strategy report drafted for the Department of Defense, written by Paul Wolfowitz, then Under-Secretary of Defense for Policy. In it, the U.S. government was urged, as the world's sole remaining Superpower, to move aggressively and militarily around the globe. The report called for pre-emptive attacks and ad hoc coalitions, but said that the U.S. should be ready to act alone when "collective action cannot be orchestrated." The central strategy was to "establish and protect a new order" that accounts "sufficiently for the interests of the advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership," while at the same time maintaining a military dominance capable of "deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role." Wolfowitz outlined plans for military intervention in Iraq as an action necessary to assure "access to vital raw material, primarily Persian Gulf oil" and to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and threats from terrorism. "

See the full post if you want more: How We Got Into This Imperial Pickle
Reply #14 Top
More hype less gripe Bush had a card after 9/11 and he played it, and I for one am glad he did He could have said the Russions are comming,the Russions are comming,and got the same backing,fact is he didn't like sadam,didn't trust him and neither should any one else. charles poore
Reply #15 Top
Classic Orwelian double-speak by the right, ooops, I mean the "independent":

"Clearly people don't care about the facts. But it's even worse on blogs because so many people are such idealogues that even when facts are presented to them they aren't willing to digest them and come to a new conclusion."

Been spending some time in front of the mirror again it seems?

But the points just keep piling up because we're all still here commenting on it. What is our fascination with feeding the Beast?
Reply #16 Top
Letter to editor today:

"David Kay says we got it all wrong;
George Tenet says he got most of it right.
George W. Bush says it doesn't matter if we got it right or wrong;
Dick Cheney keeps saying we found things that have not been found.

If you're confused, you're not alone.
Only the poet got it right:

What a tangled web we weave
When first we practive to deceive."

Willima R Goetz, Minneapolis
Reply #17 Top
I am going to through a spanner in the works and asy my argument was never that they went to Iraq for WMD...

It was for OIL!!!!!!!! hahahahaha..... And to have a US friendly base in the Middle East rather than the ever increasing hostile evironment of Saudi Arabia.

you like that one Brad? and to quote you if i may...

If more people would just THINK for themselves on these issues, then better ideas and positions would be formed...

Trust me, i thought about it ;) and to me, its all quite logical.

what a liberal cliche...
Reply #18 Top
There is not much you can say to make a left winger understand the threat that Hussein posed. It should have been obvious that Hussein was a sworn enemy of the United States. Hussein was a murderous dictator sitting on the world’s second largest oil supply, which added money into the equation. Nuclear ambition is an expensive hobby; it costs billions. In a post 911 world it world have been nothing short of dereliction of duty to have allowed Hussein to rebuild his pre gulf war capabilities, that would have been suicidal policy. Saddam Hussein would have arbitrarily turned an American city into blackened earth at a whim, or sickened a large population with a biological attack. It’s pretty unfortunate that the Dems would politicize this matter; I guess that is nothing new, they did it in the Vietnam era when many of them tried to pin the blame for the failure squarely on Nixon, conveniently leaving out JFK and LBJ.
Reply #19 Top
I agree, the hysterics of some on the left here make me glad that the adults are in charge of government and not them and their ilk.
Reply #20 Top
The above quote is directly off the PNAC website, stated quite clearly, and it is this same group of men running the show in the Bush admin. So to blow it off as liberal smack is to ignore the facts.
Reply #21 Top
BTW, do you notice that all you see from the left seems to be a bunch of empty assertions? Here I provide quotes from President Clinton himself along with a link with a historical summary of events and what do we get? Just a bunch of "La la la, I can't hear you".
Reply #22 Top
I'm sorry to ask this but I can't find the information anywhere else. Did Bush bother to ask what kind of weapons Saddam Hussein had before he declared war?

To me, being a Briton in Britain, the fact that our guy didn't ask is just shocking. It doesn't matter to me that he chose to go to war really because you can argue a really good case for and against it, but he didn't bother to ask what kind of weapons Saddam Hussein had (or allegedly had - whatever...). What else didn't he think was important to know!

Here Bliar upped the "imminent threat" ante massively, more so than Bush did, and yet he didn't even think to ask for clarification as to the nature of that threat. So he claims. And if he's not telling the truth there then he deliberately mislead people. Which he passionately claims he didn't. Either he's incompetant or a liar. Nice.

I really don't know what to believe, but next time there's a low turn out at an election (and it gets lower and lower in the UK each time) it'll be because people have lost faith in the people in power due to the fact that they never get a straight fact out of the lot of them.

We shouldn't be debating this now. Opinions are and should be different, but FACTS are being changed daily to suit the current claim or counter-claim. The debate has moved from "Should we have gone to war?" to "What were the facts?". Well we were told the facts last year but now they seem to have changed. How?

Going to war against someone is a massive undertaking and yet with this war no one seems to know what is going on, or what went on. The past is being rewritten and and reviewed and we mere mortals are no closer to getting to anywhere near the truth of it.

If past fact can be questioned so completely, how can they ever expect us to believe a word they say in the future?
Reply #23 Top
I agree, the hysterics of some on the left here make me glad that the adults are in charge of government and not them and their ilk.


Ouch! Goodness Brad, I'm a lefty but I thought my arguement at least deserved some respect... Besides, some of us lefties agree that war was necessary.

Cheers
Reply #24 Top
Foolhandy, I might be simplifying here but, I had to check my atlas to make sure, Priminister Blair might have been right saying "imminent threat" for ya'll, he may soon have been able to chunk a rock far enough to hit you on the playground but not us in the USA. We are allies still aren't we?

Brad, I'm not trolling.
Reply #25 Top

Sorry Jeb to mix you in with the rest. I think you know what I refer to.  It only takes a few zealots from either side to make what could be an intelligent discussion difficult.

When people say Bush misled the nation, it begs the question: Bush? If Bush misled the nation then so did Clinton and so did a host of people on both sides. Everyone thought Saddam had WMD -- including Saddam and his generals. The Kay report makes that pretty clear.

What some on the left simply won't accept, and this is really the key, is that most of us on the right felt that Saddam should have been removed in 1998. That Clinton had made a compelling case then to remove him.  And after 9/11 we no longer had the luxury of letting him do his thing.  One thing the Kay report makes also very very clear is that as soon as sanctions were lifted, Saddam had every intention of creating chemical, biological, and ultimately nuclear weapons.

I don't expect to convince anyone that opposed what we did in Iraq that we did the right thing. But I do expect or at least hope that they will recognize that no particular politican or political party intentionally misled them in any way.  I also don't like dishonest debating (intentional or unintentional). When people mix and match the UN presentation to get a second resolution psased with the domestic debate to go to war with Iraq.  By the time Powell gave his presentation, the US had already decided it was going to go. Did anyone doubt it at that point?  Has anyone bothered to look at the 1991 Gulf War cease fire treaty? WMD was just one of many stipulations.  Just because the media fixated on WMD doesn't mean it was the main or even core point. That's why the argument otherwise is so uncompelling.

Americans did not want Saddam Hussein left in power after 9/11. It's really as simple as that. A signifcant, though minority, of Americans wanted him removed before 9/11. After 9/11 support --- demand for his removal reach the point where this democracy did what democracies are supposed to do - follow the will of the people.