utemia

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

I wasn't splicing together a new sentence, just quoting two of yours from your previous post. I can't easily give you a definition of justice - it is complex and I wouldn't do the issue justice (pun nonintended). It is not as easy as eye for an eye. What is justice - that question isn't simple. I never said you were an evil person, just that your proposed principles or lack thereof would lead down a very dangerous road and are amazingly similar to previous and contemporary dic

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

Please explain how justice violates human rights. It seems that you have a very warped idea about what those things mean. Justice is not about state instituted revenge but rather about compensating those who were wronged and ensuring that the laws are respected - and most of the time, lawsuits are civil lawsuits where it is about finding a settlement, compensation or agreement between two parties, and not revenge. FYI, punishment and revenge are not synonyms. [quote]The only time tort

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

Taltamir, you discredit yourself with what you are saying. [quote]Freedom... So prison and the death penalty are fine, but torture suddenly violates freedom?[/quote] Torture violates human dignity, the basis of human rights. I won't bore you with the detals as human rights is probably a leftist slogan for you that has no meaning. Captial punishment - well that is a debate on its own. I oppose it because the legal system can not guarantee that it convicts the guilty person. The

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

I wasn't condemning the states per se. It is ridiculous to assume that torture is a widespread practise in the US. I think I praised the US on several occasions instead of criticising it all the time. The essence of this debate is about certain principles and why they are important and what happens when you get rid of them. Those that do not regard those principles in the same way as we do should not cause our moral values to sink to their levels. Even a child rapist and murderer gets a

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

The double standard I wrote makes me look like a hypocrite, doesn't it. But apparently the powers that be decided to adhere to said principles as Chavez is still around and spouting his nonsense and disappearing opposition politicians and troublesome journalists.

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

[quote]You know, I wonder what folks with views such as yours would do under certain circumstances. Imagine if you will - A group has taken a family member and video taped them blindfolded, with a knife at their throat, threatening to kill if their demands aren't met. In custody, standing right before you, is a person in custody with high probability of knowing this family members location. You ask him nicely and his only response is "That pig will be dead soon" with a big grin. But he has ri

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

[quote who="the_Peoples_Party" reply="21" id="2448136"] utemiacomment 7 I can't believe that civilized democratic people that I assume you to be could even consider rationalizing torture as a legitimate means to obtain information. It opens up a hole if you allow it once This is just a ploy on emotion and just because everyone says is right/wrong doesn't mean its right/wrong. Everyone that's against torture here's a country you can go and protest in: Sa

Reply to Obama, the lawyer turned president, sets out to ruin legal system in Politics JoeUser Forums

[quote]Hindsight...unfortunately doesn't work in this case. The Nazi's didn't think the war was over, and it went on for almost three more months. As you are probably not satisfied with my answer, [/quote] In the case of history I am open to new views and perspectives. I hadn't really thought about the propaganda effects outside Germany, but rather the effect on the german population - and many had stopped believing the propaganda ministry and its radio broadcasts of victory and press release

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

In dubio pro reo. Do you know what that means Nitro? Our legal philosophy is centered around the fact that you have to prove in court that someone is guilty and if you can't, that someone can not be punished. It goes all the way back to ancient rome. Do you really want to live in a world where people are tortured on the suspicion that they might be terrorist and without the prisoners having any legal rights granted to them? Due process is not just some liberal fighting slogan that one is best

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

Why were woman burnt as witches? Because someone accused them of being a witch (usually to their own personal profit) and then they were tortured and viola, confessed to being a witch. How are suspected terrorists being picked up in Afpak? I would hazard a guess that it has some similarities in regards of why information is passed on - otherwise you would have less people about whom someone said that they were terrorists in custody. And to the black slave traders back in the triangle

Reply to Obama, the lawyer turned president, sets out to ruin legal system in Politics JoeUser Forums

maybe you're right, the allies should have thought about that. But it is a historic fact that they didn't. And then there is revenge for the attacks on London and Coventry. The attack on Dresden was on February 9th 1945. The war was lost and there was no propaganda to be had from it. What " propaganda heaven" were you thinking about?

Reply to Obama, the lawyer turned president, sets out to ruin legal system in Politics JoeUser Forums

I wasn't looking for an argument, just stating the facts. There is no conspiracy, it depends on your point of view. The airraids of german cities during ww2 were certainly percieved as acts of terror by the people living there, and as a necessary tactic to stop the nazis by the allied forces.

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

[quote who="Nitro Cruiser" reply="8" id="2447697"] Torturing a person violates their human rights. I agree, lets never torture humans. Let's never torture combatants that adhere to the articles of war (Geneva Convention). Now sub-human animals that kill innocents intentionally, water board away... they forfeit their humanity by choice. We take no pleasure in performing this, and should use it as a last resort. More humanity for the beasts than they give. Nice guys fin

Reply to Obama, the lawyer turned president, sets out to ruin legal system in Politics JoeUser Forums

Ah yes, the old game of deciding when violence is a crime and when it is terrorism and when it is allowed by the ROE's. It really depends on the perspective or every soldier is also a terrorist and a murderer by default because war is just one long string of acts of terror and violence. Blowing up that car in Somalia was an act of terror commited by US special forces then - so is the US a terrorist nation? Is every act of terror automatically equal to terrorism? I don't have the answer to tha

Reply to Obama, the lawyer turned president, sets out to ruin legal system in Politics JoeUser Forums

Saboteurs is not the same as a terrorist. Spies fall into a different category. You can't compare apples and oranges by saying that both are food.

Reply to What do US soldiers think of waterboarding terrorists? in Politics JoeUser Forums

Torturing a person violates their human rights. That is the reason it is illegal. Suggesting to the brain that you are about to die is not some harmless hoax. You can kill a person if you don't let that person sleep for days on end. The chinese water torture drives people insane without hot pokers. I can't believe that civilized democratic people that I assume you to be could even consider rationalizing torture as a legitimate means to obtain information. It opens up a hole if you allow it on

Reply to Major Nidal Hasan and the Killing at Fort Hood, Texas in Current Events JoeUser Forums

[quote]People are always bring up the crusades. Why not look at Pagans and see what they did.[/quote] Because there were never Hollywood movies about Pagans (except those old sword and sandal ones like Ben Hur), and they had no figures like Richard Lionheart, Saladin or the order of the Templar Knights to make them immortal. Very bluntly, the crusades are sexy, they are controversial, and touch both christian and islamic history, and everybody knows something about them. You have films

Reply to Major Nidal Hasan and the Killing at Fort Hood, Texas in Current Events JoeUser Forums

Leauki, I do no such thing. You mean that religion exists independantly from humans and that evil committed in the name of religion has nothing to do with religion. I have problems with that dichotomy and with religion in general because of that. Evil as you call it is not very clear cut. I can come up with alot of examples, prominent and not so prominent, to show those pesky grey areas. Someone believes he does the right thing because "God wills it" (Deus vult - battlecry of crusader

Reply to Major Nidal Hasan and the Killing at Fort Hood, Texas in Current Events JoeUser Forums

double post

Reply to Major Nidal Hasan and the Killing at Fort Hood, Texas in Current Events JoeUser Forums

Duh Leauki. There are numerous examples throughout history to show that religion has been used as carte blanche to murder unarmed people. If those actions were true to religion or not doesn't really change the facts for me - because it had been sanctioned in the name of religion at the time and the people committing those acts had believed it. Right now I am thinking about the crusades (an obvious example) and more specifically against the Katharer/Albigenser in South France. </

Reply to Major Nidal Hasan and the Killing at Fort Hood, Texas in Current Events JoeUser Forums

What do you mean, Harry Potter is not real?! [e digicons]8C[/e] I couldn't resist. Your most current debate does not really have to do anything with Hasan. I don't know if there is a solution to the problem of defining ones identity if the choice is either or. Evidently, Hasan decided that he was not an American but rather a fundamentalist muslim, and that his religious identity trumps the constitution and everything else. But that general problem of who you are and w

Reply to Major Nidal Hasan and the Killing at Fort Hood, Texas in Current Events JoeUser Forums

Bahu, caps typing is really annoying to read - and it does not emphasize your argument at all. You raise an interesting issue, one that has kept people busy in the past - the struggle between culture and personal identity. It's hardly a new topic, though. You can trace it in litereature centuries back, one prominent example from the 20ies is Zora Neale Hurston's "Their eyes were watching god". You could find it in chicano literature in the US, I am sure there are many other examples that I am

Reply to Here's a recipe I'm sure you all will love for Thanksgiving. in Humor JoeUser Forums

Yep - you know what they say about sharing. I've got more if you're interested :D It sort of does ruin my appetite. Where it doesn't bother me is in milk rice, you know the sweet pudding. Yumm, if maggots taste that good cooked in milk and served with apple sauce and cinnamon, I would eat them too. We don't celebrate thanksgiving, it isn't that sort of holiday in Germany. But we have other holidays that are fun, like the 6th of December, St. Nicolaus day. Kids will clean their

Reply to Here's a recipe I'm sure you all will love for Thanksgiving. in Humor JoeUser Forums

yeahhhh. Ok. I actually never use the innards and seeds, just the flesh, so my mental image isn't ruined. Someone had too much time on their hands, but it is funny. Just for your mental image - have you noticed that cooked rice just looks amazingly like maggots? I can't really enjoy rice since I noticed that and have to make sure that they don't wiggle before I dare to take a bite, even if I cooked it myself. lol

Reply to Vatican Says Aliens Could Exist in Religion JoeUser Forums

[quote]I believe in the great silence theory. I feel if there was intelligent extraterristial we/they would have made contact. Since there has been no contact the possibility of there being other intelligent life is slim.[/quote] Why? We couldn't make contact ourselves, even if we discovered (intelligent) life on some distant planet by some fluke. We just don't have the means and technology. As far as I know, astronomy basically just interprets pictures (very very broad discription)