Kit, sorry I missed you. I went to bed just after Post 297 and missed your invitation. It was 12:50 AM...had to go to work this morning!

All:

OK, the new updates are in place on the JR website. Check 'em out!

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/jedi_republic/
[Message Edited]

Just posted another Maso victory, and managed to get my alignment back to the light side of the force in the process.

As for the earlier posts regarding the movies: the light-saber fight choreography with Darth Maul is simply awe-inspiring to watch. John Williams' score is also quite fantastic. The humor of the battle droids limited mental capacity was quite entertaining. The pod-racing sequence, I mean, c'mon, you people didn't like that??? There's lots to like in these movies. No movie is ever going to be able to compete with the original because of its unique impact during a specific time in our lives. The newer Star Wars movies don't do as well simply because there is so much good competition in the movie business, and audiences are a lot more jaded.

By the way, did you know that the original Star Wars movie cannot be seen? Every copy of Star Wars episode IV now has the subtitle "A New Hope". This was not part of the original movie shown in theatres. I belive it has some other subtle changes, although I don't know what they are.

Download the Star Wars Christmas Special and you'll realize how bad a Star Wars movie can be

As for light-saber duels, the final vader-skywalker duel owns all others. That part when luke goes nuts cause his secret's out (and the music picks up another notch) is an absolute classic.

I won't say that you are wrong 'Quack, but I think what you are saying illustrates that nostalgia and emotion play a big part in what people think is "good" in the Star Wars saga.

Looking at it objectively, if you compare Anakin Skywalker's skill with a light saber with that of Vader in the earlier movies, it's hard not to think that he somehow lost a lot of his skill. The same can be said for Obi Wan.

Having said that, movies are more than a sum of their parts. There is a certain movie "magic" that cannot be created in an assembly line fashion. The original Star Wars has that in spades.

I think there's a raw passion to Luke's crazed attack. Skill? Bah! I'm sure Episode II has better choreography and swordsmanship, but that's a different appeal. I like to feel the emotion oozing from the big screen.



Quaint. It certainly didn't detract from Episodes I and II (unlike Jar-Ja-Shutup!).



Yes, it had me gripping my armrests and leaning into my seat.



It definitely had my eyes glued to the screen, trying to catch every slice and stroke.

Yes, Luke is flirting with the darkside here, which is uncharacteristic of his Jedi predecessors. This makes sense because his training started late and was somewhat incomplete. This kind of human flaw makes him seem more like us rather than on such a high Jedi pedistal. Perhaps this is what is so applealing about the original.

Good call.

Thanks.

Now that I think of it, that is what is really missing from the new movies: Human frailties which we somehow manage to deal with or overcome. Han Solo was no saint. In the true original version of episode IV he fired the first shot, blasting that bounty hunter in the bar. In the "enhanced" version they edited in some kind of first shot from the bounty hunter so that it looks like Han is firing in total self-defense. This trend in trying to make the good guys too nice, too perfect is (IMO) a flaw of the new movies.

The one big opportunity in Anikan was to recapture this feeling of a real vulneralble human being. Unfortunately, they made him into a pompus, spoiled brat and ultimately, not very likable. I wanted to be Luke when I saw the first movie. If Anikan was more like Luke, we'd actually care when he falls to the Darkside.

Also, if I may continue to ramble on a bit, Qui-Gon Jinn is (was) probably the best new Jedi character created. He was often at odds with the council. This is interesting. This creates tension. This seems... human. This makes us care when he dies. (:(

I agree, Qui-Gon was my favorite character. I was really disappointed when he was killed.

Anakin is a difficult character. He was made pompous and spoiled because it's part of his failing. I don't think you could have made him as likable as Luke. Episode I made him look too independent (I mean, hell...he's a little kid and he pretty much tells his mom what to do. Little brat.) But Ep II gave him a teenager's attitude. "I've got the Force and I'm incredibly powerful and screw you!" kind of thing. The audience starts liking Anakin when he shows his heroism (and recklessness) at the battle of Geonosis as well as against Dooku. But the fall to the Dark Side has been scripted to be a long, drawn out process. Not just one big "BAM! You're evil!". That's why his faults are so obvious, and why he's not the "happy" character Luke was.

Hmmm...I'm kinda rambling on. :notsure:

I see your point, Theoden. The teenager thing makes sense and seems real. Come to think of it, Luke was a bit "cocky" himself. Could be a family trait that they were building on.

Just think if you were involved in saving a planet from destruction, hanging out with a Queen, the most powerful warriors in the galaxy, and the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic when you were 6 or 7 years old! Then, those warriors free you from slavery, actually asked you to join them, and you learn a power that lets you do almost anything.

No wonder he's so screwed up!

Gotta love it when somebody uses a lightsaber with all of the finesse of a billy club. "Down, Vader. Down!"



With all of the body parts that guy has lost by Episode VI, it's no wonder that Vader's a bit stiffer than teenager Anakin...

Actually, I had a debate on this point with a few fellow Star Wars fans after Episode I came out. Here's my theory: Every lightsaber fight in the first three movies featured Vader. That means that every fight MUST feature attacks by, and defenses against, somebody who's 7 feet tall, has shoulders bigger than a Volkswagen, has several artificial body parts, is wearing heavy body armor, is wearing a 95-pound helmet with narrow eyeslits, and is (for all of these reasons) not very agile but is DAMNED strong, tough and mean. Jumping around like an acrobat isn't going to help against this guy; you need dexterity, you need BOTH hands on that handle so he doesn't knock it out of your hands, and you need POWER to do any damage. Hence the two-handed, slow, longsword-type battles that we saw in the early movies. Just an idea.



Hey! I'm like, what, 70 years old in Episode IV? You expect me to jump around? I've got arthritis, you know!

One reason that I like Episode II is that all of the Jedi have faults, making them more believable. We saw this a bit in Episode I with Qui-Gon. He's a great character, but he's too rooted in the moment and takes too many chances. Always believing the best of people, he gets burned. He "adopts" strays like Anakin, who will one day be the muscle that takes down the Jedi order, and Jar-Jar, who betrayed the memory of Star Wars and was enough of a sucker to propose that Palpatine be made Emperor.

Obi-Wan, my personal patron saint, always struck me as the "black sheep" of the Jedi back in the classic trilogy. He always had an impish grin lurking just beneath the surface. Now we can see why. If anybody could have been more straight-laced and stiff than Obi in Episodes I and II, it's tough to imagine. Look at how far his by-the-book attitude gets him. Beat up by Darth Maul. Beat up by Jango Fett. His apprentice goes bad. The Jedi all die. The Republic falls. Time for a new viewpoint and a wee bit of maturity...

Mace Windu is undeniably a bad-A.S.S. m**^&^* f)(&!!!! of a Jedi warrior. (Love those "Pulp Fiction" flashbacks whenever he's on-screen!) Jango Fett spends about 20 minutes of the movie fighting to a standstill with Obi-Wan in fistfights, space battles, you name it; Mace takes him out in about 2.3 seconds. The man is a fighting MACHINE on a level that exceeds EBZ's production. And yet, on anything that requires insight, he's obviously at a loss. Not even a poor second-best to Yoda.

Just a few post-beer ramblings. But I can't wait to see "the showdown" between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Episode III...

OK, here's an actual GAME strategy question:

I upgraded to drengin.net and downloaded Version 1.9. Working on my normal Large, Painful game. I've overcome a bad starting position (surrounded on all sides except one) and now have the best military and a good economy, with a great trading partner in the Scottingas.

Here's the problem - the major A.I.s aren't letting me pick my wars. I was about ready to take on the Yor and get the resources in their territory, when the *!*?!!!!! Torians started beating war drums around my borders. 30 turns later, no more Torians. Immediately after I finished them, the Drengins pulled a sneak-attack. OK, dealt with them by demolishing their fleet(despite the fact that I needed to spend 10,000 BCs to BUY a fleet on planets near them) and sued for a very profitable peace. Now, the Yor are smashing the Scottingas, threatening my trade, and have about 20 Death Knights parked next to the two systems the Scottingas have left. If I hit that fleet, the main (?!?) Yor force will have time to carve into my frontier. If I wait to position all my fleets perfectly, the Scottingas will die, as will my trade revenue and economy. And if I just give a ton of resources to the Scottingas to let them buy a defense fleet for themselves, I'll bankrupt myself even earlier.

Meanwhile, the Arceans happily followed me into Drengin territory with a battle fleet that ONLY took out resource starbases, and followed THAT with a fleet of constructors. You can guess where they went.

So, here's the question:

Is it just me, or is the A.I. a whole lot smarter on Version 1.9!?!

I'll try to slog it out, but this one is uphill.

Obi Wan, you are strong with the Force.



Okay, I'll buy that.



Count Dooku seemed to be pretty agile for his advanced years. Too much of that ANZAC beer in you, I fear.



Your analysis of Windu is interesting. One of the reasons that the original 3 movies are held so highly is that we've had 25 years to analyze their finer points. You've shown that there is perhaps more depth to the newer films... if only people would open their minds to it.



Hmm... I can't say since I've been playing mainly maso level games with the beta. They do seem less likely to take culture bombing sitting down, though.

Oh, the episode I-II duels showed a lot more skill in saber duels than the originals, and I'd say the episode I duel was the best part of the movie. But if all I wanted was fight choreography, I'd be happy with
the martial arts movies with nothing but fight scenes. You know the sort...

"Hmm, the script says we've got to show off our 1337 fighting skillz for 3 minutes."
"Right."
(the guys fight for 3 minutes, until someone's wristwatch alarm goes off)
"Okay, time's up."
(one of them wins the fight in a way they could have easily done 3 minutes before)

That original duel showed the power of the dark side more than any of the Emperor's speeches ever could. And a fight scene that delivers a message that powerfully is rare in any movie.




Hehe, you just got me thinking about a geriatric light saber duel...

Welcome aboard to our newest recruit, Numbtenor21. I'll add you to the JR website roster this evening. In the meantime, you may want to see what else is there:

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/jedi_republic

Can I ask the name of the planet that the Jedi Council is on? Can't remember.

Killa,

The Jedi Council is on Coruscant. Some prose coming?

Thank you for your welcome Master Obi Wan. I look forward to battling alongside you all. May the Force be with us all no matter which side we utilize for the furthering of our master goal...

Yes, welcome fellow Sith. Its good to see more evil-bent people here...

Thanks Obi. Yep.

The Jedi have gained another new recruit. Welcome to the Order, Kueller! Be sure to check out the Jedi Republic homepage at:

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/jedi_republic/

If you're just getting started, the Links page on our site has links to some resources that should be helpful. You can also post any questions, comments, stories or whatever here on the JR thread or in the regular Forums. GalCiv has a solid community of veterans who are happy to help out new players.

May the Force be with y'all.

Just wanted to congratulate all of my fellow Jedi on a productive few days. We've closed on the Euros, but the shakeup at ANZAC has put them right behind us. Keep 'em coming!

Yeah, where'd all those ANZAC points come from? I don't remember them being anywhere near us a week ago.

Cotal jumped off the Fellowship bandwagon and landed back in ANZAC. Hey, nothing like a challenge, right?