Just got out of another game. I will relate what happened, but it's nothing out of the ordinary, it's just case in point. So I'm vasari, I scout right away and realize there is Advent right on my doorstep 2 jumps away. Okay, I already know what's coming, so I prepare. I see that he's building seeker and disciple combo, so assailants are out. I start building skirmishers. I drop a second, then a third frig factory just so I can continuously pump. He hi
Agent of Kharma
[quote]My point is Unit balance and Game balance are two very different things....[/quote] Ya I agree. Sometimes people confuse these. On another front, I do think EadTes and others have an interesting suggestion with nerfing the damage lrf do to caps.
[quote]You're still not getting it. As Greyfox says, capital ships have lots of awesome special abilities at their disposal and are much more versatile than specialized cruisers.[/quote] I actually got it, I just think it's perfectly fine that the capship, which has lots of awesome abilities, blah blah, should outshine the cruiser, even one that is specialized for its task. There are two competing philosophies here. One is that caps should be at the forefront, should ou
[quote]The problem with cap carriers compared to cruisers is that SC building with caps is independant of AM and cruisers are dependant on AM. This means that caps are always building their SC at optimal rates while cruisers are hampered once their squads are destroyed because of AM issues likely at that point.[/quote] Yeah, that's why I said this: [quote]Finally, if a nerf to carrier caps is to be considered (not saying it should be), I think what would do the job is have ki
I've read the points made by Darvin, Arthanis, MindsEye, etc. Some of my input. I don't have a problem with the strength of capital ships. I think they were too weak for too long. I'm glad they were buffed (including carrier capitals). I don't have a problem with capital ship rushes (I'm not saying I don't have a problem HANDLING them, I'm saying I don't have a problem with the fact that this strat is allowed or exists). Note however that the strength of this
[quote]To be honest, I think everyone forgets (Including me) that Caps are all support ships. Every single one is suppose to help your Fleet.[/quote] This was certainly the "old school" pre-buff philosophy. It still works that way, but I see some people trying to flip the equation, i.e. use fleet to support the caps. I actually think this was the proper way to go with the game. The devs had the mechanic backwards. Playing the game with hundreds of frigs all sho
[quote]Quite frankly carrier cap strategies CAN be OP (Operative term is CAN). I've read the history of threads on this game over the last two years and it's safe to say anytime a significant buff is made it CAN result in an inbalance in the game. To quote Darvin3...[/quote] Yes, you will get no argument from me that carrier caps are are quite dominant, possibly too strong and OP. Honestly, I find them QUITE bothersome. The majority of my time and energy the last mon
Darvin and Deceiver_0, I guess the only other idea I can come up with for mitigation would be to leave the late game mitigation for caps exactly where it is now, but bump the early starting mitigation. This would mean caps start out with higher mitigation than they do now, but it grows more slowly to the level 9 mark than it does now. Thing is, this probably wouldn't really solve the problem of melting capships, so then why tinker with anything at all? If this wouldn't be
[quote]Your Vasari Caps die to easily. The TEC and Advent apparently do just fine[/quote] No, from everything I've seen, everybody's caps die too easy to mass lrm. Almost everyone and their mother seems to agree with this, as evidenced by all the people chiming in on these threads, so why the insult? It's a no-brainer that no matter how good you are, you put your cap in a battle where there are 80 illums on the other side, it's gonna evaporate instantaneously, so again w
[quote]A major buff makes capital ships too OP early game which is the current issue at hand.[/quote] That's the current issue at hand? I thought the issue at hand was that caps died too easy to masses of lrm FF, not that caps were too OP early game.
[quote]So there are a lot of posts discussing Capital ship Buff this, Nerf that because early game capital carriers are too OP...[/quote] I just wanted to chime in here in case the devs got the wrong idea, and decided to nerf carrier capitals, LOL. I don't think I've seen anyone complain that carrier capitals are OP. Most people I have spoken to like the level of "buff" for carrier caps, and want it for the other caps as well. In other words, the carrier capitals are
[quote]I guess we can all universally say this needs a buff. But how?[/quote] There have been several suggestions. - Cykur proposed having it also project a shield around neighboring structures to protect them. - I proposed an idea whereby the additional safety granted by the shield generator attracts more people throughout the empire to come live there. BONUS EFFECT: higher population. - I proposed another idea where the tec novalith would be
[quote]A damage cap is absulutely ridiculous, would ruin the game, and put an end to the only real reason to have a massive fleet.[/quote] Well this is simply a bunch of horseshit. I think you are just pulling words out of your ass at this point. A damage cap would in no way put an end to the only real reason to have a massive fleet. What kind of hyperbole is that? It's absurd on the face of it. Massive fleets would still win over small fleets if there we
[quote]It does play intuitively; carrier cap will get bombers to counter your capital ship. If your capital ship isn't around - shock - it switches to fighters to counter LRF. This is perfectly intuitive and predictable.[/quote] I'm saying in general it doesn't play intuitively. If you are offering up some specific situation, like the one you just outlined, sure it might in that case. This was 3 seperate tests, 2 involving lrf, one involving lf. It seems you are
[quote]Seeing as the first capital ship is free, this OBVIOUSLY is a massive advantage for Advent...[/quote] Actually, there is nothing obvious (to me, anyway) about this game or the way it plays. It doesn't play intuitively, so the only way to figure things out is to do rote testing and memorization of the results. This was a test in asymetric warfare. He comes cap heavy? Fine, I go all frigs for pure dps, don't build a cap so that I can use those supply slo
[quote]Damage caps cannot be justified in lore whatsoever as they simply make no sense.[/quote] I could give a flying rat's ass about lore. But if you want lore, fine. The same race that created the phase jump inhibitors also created damage inhibitors. These artifacts have been installed on all capships. They are wired in to the shield mitigation systems of the capship. Any amount of damage coming in over a certain amount gets pinched. How? Th
[quote]Once you draw their fleet in, especially heavy Illum, you lay the overseer trap and deploy your mines right on top of their fleet.[/quote] I don't understand. First off, what is the overseer trap? Overseers only heal other ships, or degrade phase jumping ships. Do you mean subverters? Also, how do you lay mines right on top of their fleet? They'd either move away before the mines activated, or they would kill the mines before they became operatio
Arthanis, fine with me if you want to bump mitigation. Then your fight is no longer with me, it is with 1) the people who say it will create unkillable caps, or 2) the people who want smaller early game fleets to be able to chase away caps bombing their homeworld. A damage cap would neither create unkillable caps, nor penalize small early game fleets, but if you don't like the idea, I guess that's your perogative. [quote]The answer your looking for Agent is a change in
[quote]more damage dealt = more damage done (NO to damage cap).[/quote] I keep hearing this from people. It sounds like an emotional argument to me, not a rational one. If this isn't an emotional kneejerk reaction, then tell me the rational reason why you are against a damage cap. I haven't heard one yet. [quote]Max mitigation increase is better idea by far[/quote] But they said that mitigation increase results in unkillable caps, especially for Adven
From the first day the patch notes came out, I looked at desolators and thought "those are good ships, I will try them." It's a no brainer that they are good planet bombers. It's a strat anyone could come up with. Thing is, halcyons and sovas trump them, so in practice it never worked out for me (you either gotta go carrier cap yourself, or go all-out to defend against them). I want to hear about the starbase/minelayer/overseer/carrier strat please (haven't seen it).
More tests. SYNOPSIS: Point blank map. Vasari NO CAPSHIP vs. Advent dual halcyon. Vasari strat 1: single frig factory, mil lab -> assailants -> pump until fleet supply maxed out, build no more. Result: Halcyons win (fighter configuration). Retrospect: couldn't get enough assailants out in time. Vasari strat 2: dual frig factories, mil lab -> assailants -> pump until fleet supply maxed out, build no more. Result: Halcyons win (fig
And I don't keep highlighting chunks of my text, as above. The stupid forums keep doing it. I don't have any control over it, but it's not me, so please ignore it - thanks.
Volt_Cruelerz, you can forget about new researchables in the game - that's a pipe dream. It won't happen, in a million years. To the others, if mitigation isn't the answer because of unkillable caps, then just go back to my idea of either the diminishing returns, or a damage cap. There is nothing wrong with either
[quote]There is no reason you could possibly use to justify having a damage cap in lore.[/quote] Honestly, I could really give a crap about the lore. My only focus is the gameplay. But I'm not so sure I couldn't construct some decent lore for damage caps, were I so inclined. I just don't feel like doing it. [quote]Also, I would think that having a damage cap is a horrible solution for gameplay. It would ruin the point of large fleets.[/quote] Really?
[quote]So they higher level they get, the more bonus to mitigation max they get, making it scale to late game fleets better.[/quote] This will help. But the thing is though, masses of illums melt my and other people's capships well before the capships hit high level. I don't want to have to wait until level 9 to have a cap that might be able to accompany the fleet in battle for some length of time before dying or running away. We really need a solution that will help