Thats not the main problem with fighters.The prob is fighters die horribly fast to flak.The counter ratio is pretty high for carriers to keep fightrers in the sky.This makes it impossible to counter lrf with just a handful of cheap flak.
Darvin I would like to see you beat cykur with your mentioned tactic[e digicons]:grin:[/e]
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Well point is scouts get fixed along weith fighters and skirmishers.Vasari still have aussalt tec that makes their sb build fast in enemy wells it will just be less useful in early stages.Grey is right if your right there when it starts building it takes alot less but if your 1 or 2 jumps its extremely hard.There is no warning either sometimes you dont even see it if your battling.The migrator needs no am to cast sb its instant.Dont tell me you build carriers to kill a building sb.It takes fo
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[quote]Im just saying, why make it harder?[/quote] Because even tho its a gamble it can end the game.Fairly high payoff.If it doesnt work the enemy fleet is still in his home space and you have time to prepare.Its not an actual end gamer for a vas tho it can make it very hard for the player if you lose it.
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Oh ya the shield gen is worthless!!!AM recharger is worthless imo as well(I know agent in sp it is a nifty and fun tec but im talking about mp).I agree with sanchezz on this.Once you have higher level caps and some am recharge tecs they recharge am plenty fast that you can use abilities often.These sould be much lower and cheaper.Think about it.Say recharger is tec level 2.It would not have a large impact on game till mid because not many ships use am abilities till then.Sure progen could spa
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I think sb build in enemy wells is to high.I think 3x would be to much but it needs to be 2.5-2.75 longer.Alot of vas are getting 2 carrier caps from start and those things heal a sb.Also rape scouts.Sometimes in those cases its hard to see it coming because they are expanding with migrators anyway.Its a big gamble but it pays off extremely well.So I think it should be tougher to pull off.Consider if they fix scouts and vas skirmisher.Vas could quickly become op in begininng. I think
Ya those replays pretty much prove your point about scouts.You killed 4 sb 2 of which were upgraded 3 weapons and 3 health.You beat those sb with only 3-400 scouts.The really interesting part is the stats at end.I didnt watch past the last upgraded sb cause all ai had was fleet but by that point you did more damage hull wise than the ai with its diverse fleet and the really interesting part sb too.Really shows the efficiency of the scout is off.
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I have scuttled my cap on accident before.Have no clue how it happened.The scuttle sound is the same sound as when you cancel something I believe.So you may have thought you canceled something when it is scuttling.
The advent one is only one I watched and its pretty funny.Nearly 800 scouts take out an ugraded sb with very small losses.Nice.
Just so you know I never was a lrf spammer.I also didnt like anything but carriers and fighters.They need a small tweak to make them live long enuf to counter lrf.Flak should kill fighters but not so fast that you cant kill but 1 or 2 ships then they are dead and useless.Flak need to kill fighters fast enuf to supress them once they are killed not wipe them out after 2 passes.
Well I suggested a few days ago to add 1 ship slot to the scouts and thats it.I dont mind the cred increase as well cause scouts should not be raping lrf as a combat unit.But at the same time fighters need a small buff against flak then we wouldnt need scouts and proper mechanics would be in place.Scouts are fine as a semi counter but they should not actually counter ships. Im with you on the empire part as my play style is to have an econ before I start my aussalt on an empire.I
I agree that quickstart allows you to have an instant fleet but even without quickstart one can still mass scouts faster then other if one wishes too.Even at 15 cred sec income you can still pump out scouts and if other player doesnt then outcome would be same.Metal and crystal would remain near the same so lf would pump out retty fast too.
I 100% agree with cykur.Heres my deal with scouts.They are a no investment counter.If you get ilums you have to put up 3 labs and research them and they cost more.How lame of strategy to build a mid ship game to be crushed by tier 0 ship with no cost or strategy involved.The correct counter should be fighters.You see lrf you start to build fighters.Thats strategy.If you built eco then you played bad strategy and the guy that went mil should be in position of advantage not the other way around
[quote]Mindseye- I don't think fighters need to be tampered with AT ALL. Their stats are far too fragile to be messing with in general. Even the SLIGHTEST buff or nerf could make them unstoppable or break them alltogether. Scouts could use a MINOR tweak here and there, but i don't think it's vital enough that they require it, except Navigator's Supply. (3 as opposed to the 2 of other races.)[/quote] They are suppose to be the early game counter to lrf because they are the only unit wi
I think the units in game are pretty close to being balanced there is just a few tweaks that need to be made.Lf can be used now.Lrf are used.Flak is used,Bombers are used.Most support cruisers are used.Hc are used.If they can bring scouts into line and make fighters live longer and be more useful against lrf then the units will be close to all being useful.
[quote]I really don't think that claiming neutral extractors is any sort of advantage towards the Vasari, if anything it's a handicap - because taking them is critical for a Vasari, and they are incredibly easy to lose to another player. Bingo. I also happen to believe that micro'ing tons of scouts all over the map while also attempting to deal with pressing matters at home is a serious micromanagement headache forced on the vasari player.[/quote] I tend to agree
So your tellin me in mp you send ur colony and whatever 5-10 jumps away and steall all the neutrals from good vasari players before they have captured them long enuf to monopilze on metal and crystal to roll you? [quote]Edit: Guarding the neutrals? Only if I notice it go dark, although if it happens too often I'm not above parking an Orkulus next to one just to be an a-hole; that and the giggle factor is pretty high.[/quote] I get the feeling you dont even play the other races
If your kill the colony ship it takes agaes to get a new one there especially since you will have to re escort it there.Fact is its to hard because I dont see anyone with colony ships on the other side of map stealing neutrals from a good vas player.Good vas players dont run 1 scout around to defend their neutrals they have plenty of scouts to kill a colony ship.Noone does it to my knowledge and this has been the way it is for as long as I have played.
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7750 in creds for your 2nd cap which equals 39 scouts(advent or tec) or 17 lf.By the time you save enuf and spend it on a cap he has already fielded those ships and is pounding you with them.Plus he has a cap too.3rd cap is even more expensive.Even 20 or so lf can wear down a level 1 or 2 cap fairly quick without repair bays.Especially if he has a carrier cap with bombers.
Ya karma thats a good idea but alot of games I play are 4v4 or 5v5 and on huge maps with neutrals at any point.I guess you could make there be 10 neutrals starting near each player but then it kinda takes the randomness out of it.If they could balance the neutrals out somehow then vas be much easier to balance. Possibly make neutrals have an alliegence type where the further away it is the less you get.Makes sense since you would profit less from somthing that takes longer to get supl
On a large or huge map that would be extremely micro intensive when your in combat and managing your empire when all a vas has to do is select scouts and tell them to go there.
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I either agree with grey or say supply increase.This would keep scouts good for early early lrf rush as a counter but hamper making fleets of them and make mil much more enticing.
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Cap ship take awhile to kill a lf especially a large amount.
[quote]And there is nothing stopping the other races from sending out escorts with their colony ships and doing the exact same thing... [/quote] Yeah there is.A colony ship will most likely not survive throught 2 jumps of militia whereas a scout can traverse nearly infinte jumps thru militia. I dunno karma you will have to give neutral capture ability to all races scouts.It will change vas play alot too.
[quote]I find sometimes when someone who is not jaded by months/years of experience can often bring a fresh perspective to an issue.[/quote] Thats because they dont know what they are talking about. [quote]Top Vasari just expressed my opinion on the matter pretty much. Buff the Vasari LF/scout to make them comparable with the other factions, nerf the Advent scout to about the level of the TEC one, and things are looking pretty good.[/quote] Basically lets make stats of