Anyways, as to showing them the 'horror' they caused mystik. They would not think anything is wrong with what they did. They lack a concience, they dont see whats wrong or right, they do as the please and they cant help themselves. They are like children, very cunning children. None of them want to cause cruelty or ravel in it(well some do), but most just see what they do as justified. In the end they cant help it.

This really pisses me off... not your remarks, just the truth of it!

Kinda like people who don't give way when driving, you feel like ripping the give way sign out of the ground and smashing it through their winshield! you know, like saying "GET THE MESSAGE IDIOT?". Same with insane people or whomever chooses to hurt others, i just want to confront them most dramatically with the reality of their actions.

eeegad, i sound like a violent person don't i?? hehehe na not at all.

Even an concience can be mislead, the concience is only the product of the society it is spawned from

depends on who does the missleading. If you misslead your own concience then you have to be responsible for that. If somone else manages to misslead your concience in a genuine fashion (some peole get misslead but deep down know it's wrong) then it's not your responsibility.

emperor you are right

the mind and body are one

but you forgot about the sole or spirit

that is seperate

and will be sperate until the resuriction

ok proof

paul who used to be called saul was antichristian in fact it was his job to kill the christians

so if anyone would not be looking for christ it would have been him

yet he says that he saw christ which is why he converted and became the greatest missonary ever

depends on who does the missleading. If you misslead your own concience then you have to be responsible for that. If somone else manages to misslead your concience in a genuine fashion (some peole get misslead but deep down know it's wrong) then it's not your responsibility

i think that would depend on if you knew right from wrong

i think that would depend on if you knew right from wrong

Is anyone immune from the effects of the tree of knowledge? Show them to me, i want to see what Adam was like befor the fall??

Some may have a reduced understanding of right and wrong, no one has completely no understanding of right or wrong

adam was like a child

you don't blame a 3,4,5,6,or 7 year old for doing something evil

you blame the parents

also people like my great aunt do not know right from wrong

adam was like a child

before the fall? compared to who?

it takes people 8 years to learn the rules to be human
it takes 12 to 14 years to be able to produce children
it takes 17+ years to learn how to function in the modern world at least in the usa

yes before the fall

compared to the normal child who has god teaching him how to be human

danielost can i ask you, do you know what the effects of the tree of knowledge were? i mean the direct effects excluding the resulting consequences?

gaining the knowledge of good and evil

Actually it takes a child a mere three years to truely learn the world around them. And i child is socially mature at the age of seven. However, they are no emotionally mature untill at least the twenties.

As for what i meant by my statement. I was refering to the differance of morals based on where you are in the world. Plus, you are using the concience as if everyone has the same one, but in truth it isnt so.

Ill be back tomorow with even more psychological jargon, so be ready

goodnight

gaining the knowledge of good and evil

Correct, so therefore it is impossible to compare Adam to a child since children have the knowledge of good and evil even if they havn't learnt to understood such emotion they still feel it's effects.

ok

Correct, so therefore it is impossible to compare Adam to a child since children have the knowledge of good and evil even if they havn't learnt to understood such emotion they still feel it's effects.

How is the knowledge of good and evil an emotion?

An emotion is a state of feeling.

Knowledge is the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.

Children do not have any knowledge of good or evil unless and until they are taught.
They do, however, experience emotions.

So Adam went from understanding good and evil as an emotional state, to one of knowing good and evil with the familiarity gained through experience.

He went from an emotional feeling of trepidation because of the Lords command, to the sure knowledge that he had irrevocably chosen to disobey that command.

It is the same with any of us. And it is not in our genes, it is in our very spirit.
We have to test it, play with it, get burned by it and maybe killed by it.
Because something in our spirit tells us that it is important to understand everything at more than face value.
And there can be no understanding without knowledge, just as there can be no wisdom without understanding.

true

why is that moosetek

Concerning if we are our own judge?

I'll let the words of Jesus speak for me:

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

well that proves my point about christ and god being two different people

and that christ isn't the judge

and i believe that god will decide if your judgement of yourself is right so it that way yes god will be our judge

Christ and God - as in Son and Father - being two distinct beings - yes.
God is Spirit, Christ is also physical.
But, they are both still the same God.

We judge ourselves, by being true to what we believe (and in choosing what we believe). But in the end, it is God that judges if we are right in what we choose to believe.

And in the end, it is what (and who) we choose to believe and follow that determines our ultimate fate - that being eternal life, or eternal death.

our ultimate fate - that being eternal life, or eternal death.

Don't the afterlife schemas for Christians and Muslims include the possibility of eternal damnation? Eternal death's fine by me, but I don't recall ever hearing a priest or imam say that was an option.

Also, what happens if (when?) we develop technology that effectively stops death through aging and disease? I have a former Christian friend who is very serious about the notion of eternal life in *this* world. (That idea daunts me as much or more as heavens and hells do.)

I have a former Christian friend who is very serious about the notion of eternal life in *this* world.

That would be all fine and good except for one thing...
The transition our 'soul' is supposed to make upon death would in essence never happen so long as we reside in our physical state. From my readings over the years, this enlightenment cannot occur until death severs the physical from the spiritual. I personally believe that our physical senses have overtaken our spiritual being, thus overpowering our spirit's quest to enlightenment. I don't believe that very many of us could ever make this transition as long as our physical sensations overpower our spiritual ones.
Here's one for you G.W.,
I've heard a lot of people say that killing an animal to put it out of it's misery is a 'good' thing. Now maybe it is and maybe it isn't... but doesn't is seem odd that to us as a species our answers always take the 'easy way' out... sure it is easier to destroy something than create it... what do you think about this G.W.?

Laws written by men are not really laws, just words written on paper. We precieve them as laws when backed a monopoly of force/coersion, a.k.a government.

True laws cannot be broken, for instance the law of gravity. We cannot break the law of gravity it always effects us.

Words written on paper are not law, just words that some men have written down to dictate the actions of others.

There is no way to prove or disprove the idea of an after life. To say that the mind and body are not seperate entitys is just as wrong as saying they aren't. It's not scientifically impossible for the mind and the body to be seperate entitys, there is no way to scientifically study the mind, we can study the brain but not the mind. Science really doen't know what the mind is.

Science is actually comming up with theories that actually support the idea of an afterlife, it's called the string theory. It's a complex thoery but some of it points to the idea of other dimensions, some that could be right in front of us but we are unable to sense due to the limitations set on us by our own demension.

Im not a subcriber to any religion or the string thoery for that matter. I just find it interesting, and i usually will stand up for both sides of the argument. I dont know the meaning to life or what happens after death, but no one does and to say you know one way or the other is absurd.

Here's a BBC documentary on the string theory, take a look and see what you think. NOVA also put out a show on the string theory but i cant find it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4183875433858020781&q=nova+universe+duration%3Along+is%3Afree

i think the number is about 50% of all heart recipents start to exhibit some of the habits of the previos owner

in string thoery they have decided that there are 13 dimenisions the last dimenision ends up being a membrane and the only thing i know of with a membrane is living cells

science has also found that the max life span of humans is 120

they don't know the reason why

i do it is the bible

after the flood god limits mans max life span to 120

was i could get the chapter and everything but i don't have any bibles in my house

the bible says that god has gone through what we are going through so god can not be spirit