I explained it to you in PM, LW.  If you do not want to accept or understand the underlying issues that both myself and Jafo has made clear, then there's nothing else I can do.  Making it public in some attempt just to draw attention does not do anything, and is not the place for discussions like this.  Anything else needs to be taken to PM, or just leave it alone.

The last I heard was that if a foreighn bank had branches in the USA with employees etc, they too would be eligable for the "bailout".  I have not checked if this made it to the final package.

I do believe that they removed the nonsense about giving 20% of any profits that might result to ACORN and other low income housing groups.  I find it incredible that that was even in there. ACORN has been convicted of voter fraud in 3 states! Obama was their attorney in Chicago and also a trainer for the Chicago branch and maybe that is how it got in there in the first place.  I do not know one way or the other.

I agree with you on the CEO thing, but i do not think that there  is any requirement to prove greed as a motive.  Any CEO involved cannot get any more that $500K in compensation as I understand it.  The problrm with this bit is that it is to include any CEO that participates in the bailout and that would include CEO's of comapnies that buy the debt from the government at some time in the future.  This will only have the effect of keeping good companies away from buying the debt I fear.  We shall see.

I think they were just trying to protect the really poor, Ken. As for ACORN, as a Community Organizer and Harvard trained lawyer, it doesn't surprise me he was involved with them...but that doesn't mean that a) he got that language in the compromise nor that he was involved in any illegal actions.

As I feared, the greed thing will affect the outcome. I don't think it's truly buying debt, rather redeeming insurance .... a thin distinction (if any) and I might be all wrong on that part. I haven't read what (if anything) has been made available. They'd better be pretty darned transparant about this, though.

Yes indeed!  But I rather doubt it.  I just don't trust any of them to do anything other than try to get re-elected. I have had it with the blame game and the result from same that we never get to the truth of anything that happens.  It will always be through the prism of whomever chairs the investigating committee. If the republicans head the committee they will blame the dems and vice versa.  All the after the fact investgations are usually attempts to t rewrite history in favor of whomever is on top at the moment.

Agreed. Probably another thing we will never know for sure.

Quite a roller coaster ride for sure! Just remember, you only get hurt on a roller coaster when you try to get off in the middle of the ride!

Too true!

To quote an infamous Roman Governor, "Truth? What is truth?".

History is generally written by the guy who wins the war. .

Or when the restraints fail.... .

There's only one way to be sure a politician is honest.... attend their funeral, to be sure, to be sure.

Did that.... coupled with a one-way bus ticket outta town.  It would have been outta State... but she didn't leave me enough cash.

A stowaway, eh!   Well us'd 'ave ter 'ave sum entertainment first... so it'd ave ter be tha keel'aulin, follered up by a leaded swan dive orf tha high spring boar.... er, plank.

Being serious now, I am also afraid that this bailout won't work, that it would be a temporary 'quick' fix that doesn't address the unlerlying issues.  There needs to be stronger and enforcable regulatory controls that prevent financial institutions awarding themselves fat bonuses while trading in high risk bad debts... as in selling off blocks of delinquent mortgages to other financial institutions/investors as a way of offloading debts they'd rather not have to bother with.  Independent companies, yes, but the whole financial sector is interdependent and it can not trade itself out of trouble by bandying bad debts off to one another.

Frankly, I see this issue rearing its ugly head again in the not too far off in the distant future... there is no quick fix bailout because the problem is caused by decades of greed, economic mismanagenent, poor investment choices and the deregulation of banks, etc. The better way to resolve this crisis would be to assist the struggling home buyers to make their mortgage repayments, thus generating capital for these institutions, with regulatory controls, to trade their way out of trouble. Sadly, however, the dickhead powers that be will prop up the wealthy financial entreprenuers who have lost billions of other peoples money, NOT THEIR OWN, and the problem will continue to spiral downhill.

This is exactly what I've been saying as well. There's not much to add except that this was our totally useless government's regulatory function that was bypassed by ideology freaks.

LW and I are in total agreement on this. No noose, though...but I will say LW is developing the proper bloodthirsty attitude required of a Pirate crew member! Now, if we can just teach her our lingo, there's a spot open for a good cannoneer on H.M.S. Oz Boss. .

I feel it was the negotiator's function to get to a reasonable severance and benefit/salary package for the CEO's and the Boards of Directors who dropped the ball on that one. I believe that the mechanism of public/stockholder review breaks down due to secrecy, distance and impossibility of keeping track of it all. If that's true, and I believe it is, what is the alternative to a division of the SEC reviewing these matters? I'm open to all proposals, mates!

Now you're talking, LW... in fact, I couldn't have said it better myself.  I had similar thoughts but (with the black van with blacked out windows parked outide), I was just being diplomatic before.  I'm glad you recommended the noose, tho, as opposed to firing squad or 'the chair'   In these tough economic times, bullets are costly and not reusable, and electricity is a resource that needs to be conserved to save price hikes to consumers.... however, a rope can be reused, thus saving taxpayer dollars.

Seriously, the protectionism (in-house & govt) needs to stop, as do the secret handshakes, backroom deals and self-serving bonus/salary pakages these financiers believe is their right to skim from other peoples money/investments.... and should any of them have broken the law, then they should face full extent of the law, just as those without money and fancy lawyers would have to... no special deals or plea bargaining just because they have money and influential ties with powerful/connected people

Sorry to hear about the health issues, LW...and I truly hope that improves.

As for the Mods....well, LW....just a friendly suggestion (not trying to score points)....maybe dialing it down a notch or two, or less personalization might please them more. I don't believe they're after you personally. Really. They are a pretty reasonable crowd. They seem to leave things pretty much alone (naturally lazy, I say) until the begins.

This is the right stuff! Not all the time...as you can see from the thread above. As for the politics, whispers are listened to whereas shouting causes cringing. Maybe stating things softer and allowing for the possibility that others hold valid opinions which might be as right for them as yours are for you will catch more mates .... after all. honey/vinegar don'tcha know....

I'd certainly extend the hand of welcome....if you promise not to bite it off. .

P.S. That Starkers types bloody fast! But his stuff ain't as good as mine!

Hey! I found a pic of Moose at Sarah's place....I think they were praying for mercy or maybe for her to go to D.C. and away from them!

Yep, this bailout crap has people all over the Word steamed... worried as hell more like it, and I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling too well, but when you're feeling better/more humourous, you'd be welcome to join in a bit of 'pirate banter' if youd like to. We only started it to lighten the mood when things started getting heavy and/or angered - nothing like a bit of tongue in cheek BS to help steer it on a different course (eg. TheGuyPc) - and that's the whole idea here, a bit of levity to (hopefully) help cheer up those who are hurting, angry and worried.

Nope... I'm a one finger typist and quite slow.  As for my stuff not being as good as yours... only in your dreams. Hehe

Hey! I'm a "Legend In My Own Mind" and I'll brook no arguments!

Did that come out right?

I thinks me Cap'n got a figger  up 'is nose, I do!

My solution to our Do nothing and Do less Congress?

Take yer booty and  R U N  me mates!

And Wot T'do about them Politico Buggers?

The Government.

Who cares, it sounded good.

Aye matey!  Me finks I lost sum o' me booty up thar... an' I be tryin' t' dig it out.

Aye...RUN straight inta tha arms o' cap'n starkers wiv it.  I be tha Robin 'ood of pirates.. I'd give it t' tha poor... its rightful owners.

As fer sh!ttin' on tha politicos... they already be up t' thar necks in thar own BS n' diggin' 'emselves deeper... soon tha buggers 'll choke on thar own excrement, me finks.

How could anyone vote for someone who murders wildlife as a hobby? Not really setting a good example is she.

Between McCain and his war record and this gun slinginging floosie, I expect bombing to begin right after the election. Just the kind of folk you want in power...

In other news, the Oz PM, Kevin Rudd, was crying in his morning coffee over Congress' refusal to pass the bailout bill.  Rudd believes the fallout from this decision will prompt Australian banks to hike up interest rates, thus placing greater stress on Oz home buyers... meaning for people who are renting, like me, rents will also rise.  While I could probably sustain a relatively small rent rise, there will be many who will not be able to... meaning the number of homeless will rise, while thousands of rental properties stand vacant.

It is a ridiculous situation!  If I were a property investor, I would like to see 'some' return for my outlay, even if it was below market value, just to keep the dollars ticking over to help reduce my debts.  However, the investors/agents won't do that... it's like they're holding out in the hope someone better off will come along.  Unfortunately, it has gone way beyond that... those who were slightly better off financially are also struggling because of high gas and food prices, etc, so it is becoming increasingly unlikely thareduced/t someone 'better off' will/can come along... thus the houses stand empty and the debts accumulate through higher interest on reduced and/or non-payment.

Yup, it truly is a sad, sad situation... and while the finacial sector is in strife, other industries (eg: building,  manufacturing and transport) will also suffer downturns in produvtivity/profits... then service industries like hotels, restaraunts and theatres will suffer because unemployment is up and nobody can afford to go to them.

It would be good if we could get back to basics: a fair day's work for a fair day's pay; equitable prices on goods and services; and keeping manufacturing/employment on-shore.  However, those with a vested interest in maximising profits and personal wealth would fight it tooth and nail, all the way to the bank.

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran! Sing it with me now!

starkers, if its like it is here, if their rentals are vacant, they can write that off their taxes.  So they don't lose a thing.  The greed of people is whats to blame for things.  Not one party or the other.  Both are greedy and do things to enhance their stance.  They vote  for whatever is best for themselves.  Shame.

As a moderator, I guess I should say something to LW.  Hi LW.

Starkers is so right. I can't take it! Greed, stupidity and the worst administration in history!

Decent, hardworking people being screwed out of everything they ever almost had. And what are &*^*(^&*&(  politicos interested in?

You guessed it....power and staying in power.

I wish Cheney would invite them to go hunting with him.

Yeah, and Iran...who are we going to borrow money from to do that, huh Bebi? LOL. One thing hasn't changed, though: "War's great business. Invest your sons and daughters."

WOM, you voice our impotent rage.

And that shooting animals from helicopters? How come they don't go after something that could shoot back?

Well, I'm 61 today. I see this country I love falling into pieces and floundering in a stormy sea: Rudderless and leaderless. I just feel so depressed.

A lot of people look at the bailout as helping big business.  A lot of people look at it as saving their pension plans.  The stock market will correct it self in time whichever way this goes.  Just a lot of companies will go under or be bought out and a lot of people will have to work longer.  When I retired, I moved my money to IRA, CD's, so money wise, it doesn't effect me like it does a lot of people.  Stop this stupid was/police action or whatever you want to call it and we'll save a billion $ a day and maybe we can start putting this country back on a solid financial footing.  I may be for Mc Cain, but I've voted against Bush for everything he ran for.  And Dr J0622, Happy Birthday.

Our tax laws allow for some of it to be written off, but never enough to recoup the losses incurred by vacant properties, nor to counter the rising debt they find themselves in.

I do agree that greed is the primary cause of this financial crisis... like I said before capitalism is not a good economic model when the haves seek to profit at all costs/ the expense of the have-nots... and when they're cutting one another's throats to gain economic advantage, the loser is most often the little person with very little to lose to begin with.

These bastards who award themselves fat bonuses aren't really losing anything in this financial meltdown... they invest other peoples money and live off the commissions, while their amassed fortunes sit safely in some offshore bank account.  They are parasites living of the hard earned money of others... sitting up there in their ivory towers while hard working honest people are being made homeless through greedy interest rates and foreclosures.

As far as I'm concerned, while Saddam Hussein was more blood thirsty and violent, these parasites have inflicted as much misery and suffering, if not more so, and should swing on the end of a rope.

A very, very happy birthday to you Doc... I wish you all the best and hope you have a fantastic day.

Thanx, WOM. Glad you're not getting screwed. Starkers, why waste the rope? Yeah, it could be reused but who'd want to with their slime on it?

I wish there were some fix to it, but there isn't. As for Iraq, Iran is going to be a huge force in that country (already is) and we can thank that mental midget GWB for that. He couldn't even learn from the reasons his father didn't invade.

What a difference: GHWB/GWB and John Adams/John Quincey Adams. The gene pool has gone shallow, and not just in the white house. The fault lies in ideology being more important than humanity.

It is not, nor has it ever been. Everytime it has occurred, we've ended up in a mess, and this is no exception: Ideology and the boundless greed attached to the Neocon ideology along with it's own brand of associated religious fanaticism.

<------ The cloud Dr. J. is under today. 

Thanx, Mark....but it's just a gloom and doom day.

If anyone wants/needs a good laugh, take a look @ LW's blog:

http://little-whip.impulsedriven.net/article/302206/Have_a_Happy_Period

You have to cheer up a tad after this!

Sorry to be a drag, mates....just missing someone very much.