The passage, "And kneeling down, He prayed, saying" Father, if thou will, remove this chalice from Me! But yet not My will, but Thine be done." is probably one of the greatest lessons we can ever have on prayer. If Jesus wanted to die he would not have asked God to remove the chalice from him. No human ever wants to die. We spend thousands just to keep ourselves alive. We worry that we have enough earthly goods to keep ourselves alive. We worry that someone will take our lives from
IN the OT Jesus was referred to as the lamb of God. To say his sacrifice was not good in this aspect is to say he came and died for nothing. I never said that his sacrifice was for nothing, you are putting your words in my mouth. He died to become closer to god, I wouldn't call that nothing. And I did not say that he wasn't the "lamb of God". I said that he was called the lamb because he represented in the flesh, or human form, a reminder to the Hebrew nation as to the real reason be
[quote]Nightshades, I've tried to read your comments through in an effort to understand where you are coming from. It's difficult becasue you mix a little truth with error in your expression of Christianity.Would it surpise you to learn that in God's plan it is Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Word, who is the center of everything? This is abundantly clear throughout the OLd and New Testament and in everything the Church teaches. For the sake of Christ Jesus in whom God was well pleased, God created
[quote]The point that I am trying to make is that the bible other than Genesis, (there is a Genesis history for all lands and their people) is Jewish history, and the history of the jewish nation's covenant with THE I AM that they call God. It's history should not be considered the only history. There is no one true religion other than that 'THE I AM" and we are seperated one from the other by our own self importance. And if one truly loves "THE I AM", no matter the name that one calls it, he wi
[quote]Jews do not hold this to be so. The message in the bible is a message of transformation through relationship with God. We are not born in sin,you mean to tell me they don't recognize their own prophets? David himself said:"Behold I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me." Ps 51:5"The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies." Psalm 58:3From the moment of conception a person possesses a sinful nature. Ok how about Job?
[quote]but the jewish religion does believe in reincarnation. And once more Jesus and the apostles were JEWISH.No Jesus and the Apostles never spoke or taught this. IN fact they taught the opposite that we live one life and are judged at the end of it. Where did I read it, Apocalypse 7.3Good. But did you notice these were 12 Jewish Tribes and that they were sealed during this time? It has nothing to do with only 144,000 people being saved. These 144,000 are ONLY Jews at the very end. Do you
The point that I am trying to make is that the bible other than Genesis, (there is a Genesis history for all lands and their people) is Jewish history, and the history of the jewish nation's covenant with THE I AM that they call God. It's history should not be considered the only history. There is no one true religion other than that 'THE I AM" and we are seperated one from the other by our own self importance. And if one truly loves "THE I AM", no matter the name that one calls it, he will o
I didn't say that the rapture was not true. The way most christians perceive it is not true. That to be taken up means to disappear from sight of those who are here. Where did I read it, Apocalypse 7.3 "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding fast the four winds of the earth, that no wind should blow over the earth, or over the sea, or upon any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the l
Yes KFC I am sure and I would put money on it. And by the way the number that shall be saved is 144,000. Which of you can say that you will be one of those numbers? Christians number not 144,000 but in the millions. So tell me what is the defining factor between you that will be taken up and those that won't? Do you think that righteousness belongs to only christians? There is also the rest of the world to consider, and personally I can think of many who are not christians that would ho
I say it because I know it's true. It's not a belief, nor something that someone else told me. You think that christians have a corner on the market? You are narrow minded and narrow of spirit indeed As I said before don't quote the apostles to me. Paul said Jesus shall rise first. Rise from where? The earth? He's not dead. Certainly not from heaven because according to you heaven is up, not down. And by the way neither are clouds. Those of us which are alive? That can mean
[quote]Lula posts #185 Belief or faith is the first step but that alone doesn't guarantee salvation. Belief (having faith) and love of God comes first, then good works flow from love of God and neighbor.Nightshades posts #188 What may I ask do you define as "good works?" And why do you feel that they flow from god?Nightshades posts #213 No I didn't ask you, but since you felt free to answer the question I felt free to include you.I'm sorry...I thought your were directing your questi
[quote]This the interesting thing about language. "Taken up" means what?well Nightshades first brought this up saying the Buddha was taken up. From a Christian perspective "taken up" means for the most part to be snatched away or raptured as Elijah and Enoch were. They are examples of the future "rapture" that Christians speak of. Why may I ask that you take the word of Paul of Tarsus?Because of his changed life for one thing. It was pretty dramatic. I believe he was apprehended by Christ o
Why may I ask that you take the word of Paul of Tarsus? He was not one of the apostles and there is no evidence that what he said took place did indeed take place. While Jesus gave his knowledge to the apostles there is no guarantee of their understanding of it. And obviously they did not understand it fully because they still fled upon his arrest and hid. One can tell and show a child how to do a math problem, but that also is no guarantee of understanding on the part of the child either.
[quote]However you said that God speaks to you. How? And I'm not asking because I doubt your word. I would just like you to tell me how he speaks to you.Many ways. Sometimes it's thru other people. I'll be thinking or praying on an issue, and he gives me the answer thru another. Sometimes by an experience as he leads me into a place or situation that just amazes me. Sometimes I don't realize it until I look back at a given situation. Another way of course, is by reading his word. I don't know ho
[quote]But the gist of it is that he traveled into what christians consider the after life and saw what does take place. The words are not the same as the words used in the bible, (the bible is far more obtuse) but the experiences are. And that comes from my own personal knowledge and experience.and see this experience flys directly in the face of what the bible tells us. It's very contrary to scripture. Jesus said there is a great gulf fixed and we can't go from there to here. Scripture also is
[quote]"I use other scripture to interpret scripture." And that makes sense how? If you do not understand the one using another to interpret it is like not understanding either. Each passage has it's own meaning and is not dependant on the other for it.There are many rules for interpreting scripture. The reason we have so many denominations out there mainly is because they don't use the "whole" of scripture. I know because I've been involved in many cults that totally ignore anything that would
[quote]Sodaiho posts: I will say this, heaven and hell are not real, tangible places, but rather states of mind, attitudes we can get stuck in. They are what we make of our lives.SilentPoet posts: (And please give it some thought before you reply, because I understand your upbringing/beliefs.).Good. I'm glad you understand from where my position on Hell comes. There is a Hell which which the justice of God created, to punish rebel angels and unrepentant human beings. Hell is eternal pu
[quote]No I didn't say that Robert Morris was a jew, I said that Robert Morris and an unnamed jew financed the Continental Congressok, just checking. I found out that Morris was an Epicopalian. Your belief in the scripture is based strictly on your interpretation, or what someone else has interpretted for you, of it. Not on what is actually written.No not really. I use other scripture to interpret scripture. I also teach the bible and have for years. So what exactly are you referring to spe
[quote]What may I ask do you define as "good works?" And why do you feel that they flow from god? I didn't ask what St. James said, or thought or knew, nor what catholic theology teaches. I asked how YOU KNOW.Nightshades, Knock, knock, you there? Here are your 2 questions...as far as I can tell, you didn't ask me how I know. I answered by defining "good works" and explaining how I know (not feel) that good works flow from Almighty God...and also added I know what I know through my studies of
God decides, he doesn't need you or me or anyone else to decide what those works should be. He uses us just as we use the pen. It is not the pen that does the deciding, it is the writer. Anything that we or Paul, or James, or anyone else decides is a "good work" is their idea, not the idea of god. We will nver know what god decides until we shut up long enough to listen, and god will speak to us if we do. He speaks to us constantly but we are so busy with our own dialog that we never hear.
[quote]What may I ask do you define as "good works?" And why do you feel that they flow from god?In a nutshell, "Good works" or "good deeds" are actions of deepening our love of God for His sake and love our neighbor as oursleves.Believing in God and that Jesus is the Christ is a central element of Catholic faith. However, Christ Himself makes it clear that it is not enough simply to believe that this is the truth. Christ instructed His apostles what it means to say that He was the Christ. He to
[quote]What may I ask do you define as "good works?" And why do you feel that they flow from god?Good works from God's perspective is what gives HIM glory. We need to examine ourselves from time to time. Are we doing these good works for our own benefit or for God? Are we doing good things to get a pat on the back or are we doing these works to further the gospel? Paul speaks about a future time when our works will be tested by fire. Paul said this:"For no one can lay any foundation other than t
[quote]Nightshades....was it you who said Robert Morris, signer of the declaration was a Jew? Because I just read this:Morris worshiped in Philadelphia at St Peter's Church on Pine Street and Christ Church on 2nd Street, both of which were run by his brother-in-law, Rev. William White.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morris_(financier)doesn't sound very Jewish to me. Nor can I find any indication he was. Where are you getting your info? Faith is not enough, and neither is belief or even a
I don't think that you understood the question. What makes you know that it is gods works and not your own? Self examination has to do with self, not god. And who benefits from the work is not a defining factor either. God's works are quite often to our benefit, even when we are the ones performing the act. I must say you do have an understanding of how god works, as evidenced by your last statments about the prophets.
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